Two former Seahawks stars challenged each other. They show how relationships really grow
Editor's Note: This story is a part of Peak, The Athletic's new desk covering leadership, personal development and success through the lens of sports. Peak aims to connect readers to ideas they can implement in their own personal and professional lives. Follow Peak here.
I have known Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright for a dozen years now, which is hard to believe.
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For much of that time, Wagner and Wright were linebackers for the Seattle Seahawks during the franchise's golden years, while I was a young reporter for The Seattle Times and The Athletic.
Wright was inquisitive, always interested in other people's lives. Wagner delivered blunt honesty with a smile and a positive aura. But what stood out to me were the ways they balanced each other, so I wanted to talk to them together for a couple of reasons.
First, they are entertaining as a pair, equal parts complimenting each other and bickering in the way lots of friendships will recognize. Second, I wanted to hear how they navigated the intersection of their personal and professional relationships — how they held each other accountable in the workplace while remaining close away from it.
Today, Wright is an assistant for the San Francisco 49ers in the early days of his coaching career. Wagner is about to enter his 14th season and is the leader of the Washington Commanders.
This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
You guys were together for so long, I want to know what you learned from each other. K.J., I'll let you start.
Wright: The power of building a relationship with somebody. You talk about leading and guiding people, but Bobby is good at connecting with people. I don't think there was a person in the locker room that he didn't vibe with. Spending time with people, hanging out, shooting the s—. He was good at that.
And something that I want to get better at: being honest. I like to sugarcoat a lot. I like to take people's feelings into account. But Bobby was like: 'Hey, shoot it to me straight.'
It's crazy because (49ers assistant head coach) Gus Bradley came to my office today, and I said I want to get better at that. What I try to do is protect people's feelings, but you realize the ultimate goal is for people to get better. So if you lie to them and bulls— them, that's just as damaging. I think Bobby was good at telling the truth and having emotional intelligence with it.
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Tell me where that comes from, Bobby.
Wagner: I'm observant. I'm constantly learning — not just about things but about people. I read somewhere that 90 percent of communication is body language, so I try to pay attention to that. I feel like a lot of people don't bulls— but they mask their feelings, especially in this sport. If you're able to pick up on body language that tells you otherwise, that tells you when they're like, 'Oh, yeah, I'm all good,' but their body language isn't saying that, you kind of know how to open them up.
But I would say I learned this from K.J.: How to care about people. Because when people know that you care, it puts them in a space to open up. I don't think that's something he gives himself enough credit for. He always created a space where people felt vulnerable to come to him about anything. Like he was saying, sometimes I might give a hard truth that might not make people feel as comfortable talking to me. We were kind of like the perfect balance. They might come to K.J. after I told them the hard truth, and he was able to break it down in a different way than I expressed it.
I think that's why we worked so well together. We knew each other's strengths.
I don't know if I've ever told K.J. this. K.J. did something small for me back when I covered you guys, that meant a lot to me, so what better way to share it than when thousands of people are going to read it. I came to the locker room one day and, man, I was in a bad headspace. I was depressed and just having a tough time. K.J. came up to me …
Wright: I think I remember this.
K.J. came up to me and was like: 'You doing OK?' And I lied to him and said, 'Yeah, of course,' but it meant a lot to me that he noticed that because a lot of players wouldn't. It's a little superpower of yours.
Wright: Save your tears, man. Save your damn tears. But, no, you just look at life in general. So many times we put on a mask and try to cover up stuff, but it's written all over our face. Body language. The way you walk, the way you talk. I think we both were good at that, too.
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When I was going through my s— in my eighth year, I felt like I didn't have enough people who understood what I was going through. But Bobby would come check on me: 'Hey, man, how are you feeling? How are you doing? How's your headspace?' First off, I lied, but then I was able to say: 'Man, this sucks. I'm hurt during my contract year. Life ain't good.' When you have a relationship with somebody, just to be able to be there for them and give them space to just get the words out of their system and talk it out, that s— is powerful in my opinion. I thought he was always good at that with everybody in the locker room.
Bobby, how do you give hard feedback or how do you hold people accountable?
Wagner: Uhhh, you just say it.
As simple as that?
Wagner: I think what you value most is an honest friend. I forget what rapper said that, but like K.J. was saying, we live in a space where, especially when you're coming up, people always tell you what you're good at. They're afraid to give you their real, honest opinion. So when you find somebody who will tell you when you're not on your game, it allows you to fix a problem.
A lot of times, people don't know that something is off or that they could be doing something better because people are always patting them on the back. I think that comes through relationships. That comes through knowing a person. You sit down and have a conversation and you go over somebody's goals and they say what they want to do, so when you catch them in a space where they're not doing what they said they wanted to do, or they're not working as hard as they need to to get to that goal, you can check them on it because they know it's coming from a good place. It's coming from a caring place. 'I want you to meet that goal. This is me just pushing you.'
And the other thing is, I always leave space to check myself, too. I've never been in a space where someone can't tell me when I'm off my game or I'm not doing what I need to do.
Wright: I'm going to push back on you, Bobby. When you do get checked, you will check back, but then you eventually will be like: 'OK, I got you, I hear you.'
Wagner: Well, if it's K.J., it's different …
Wright: (Laughs)
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Wagner: … because K.J., like he said, will come and check me, but he'll say eight words just to get to the one word.
Wright: I know.
Wagner: I'm like, 'Bro, just tell me what you are talking about. Like, what are you saying that I need to improve?' He'll leave like Blue's Clues.
Wright: That's fair, that's fair.
Wagner: I'm like, 'Damn, K.J., you could have just told me this 30 minutes ago!'
I think this story might be from your eighth season, K.J. You were hurt and you didn't watch the end of team practices. Instead, you were inside rehabbing your knee. But as a linebacker group, you guys had a rule that injured players always watch the team portion of practice. Bobby came up to you and said: 'What's up, bro? You can't come out and help the guys?' And you said: 'I'm taking care of myself.' And Bobby said, 'Oh, you're taking care of yourself? If that's the case, you might as well not come out here.' And then you guys got upset at each other.
Wright: (Laughs)
But the point of the story was that Bobby later said, 'You have to have people around you who are willing to challenge you, and I felt like that was my moment. I felt like I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't say anything.' I wanted to hear what you guys think about that.
Wagner: At the end of the day, in my opinion, that's how relationships grow. The relationship ain't a relationship in my opinion until there's a challenge.
Wright: Mhm.
Wagner: Because everybody can be good when things are going well. But what are you when things aren't looking good? What are you when somebody tells you something about yourself? Like K.J. said, he might come say something to me, and I might have a reaction to it in the moment. But then we'll come back and have a conversation, and I'll say, 'I just want to let you know that you were right.' You know it's coming from a place of love.
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Wright: Prime example, prime example. So 2017 …
This was the other story I was going to bring up.
Wright: (Laughs). Bobby had an injured hamstring. I had a concussion that game so I didn't play. I was sitting there looking at this dude, and he's limping and hitching on the field before the game. He asked me how he looked. I said, 'Uh uh. No, dog, you ain't right.' He walks away from me. Alright, whatever. Fast forward, the game happens and Todd Gurley runs a little route, and Bobby is still limping and hitching. Gurley scores a touchdown.
I walked up to Bobby, and I don't know what I said, but I believe Bobby interpreted it as, 'You're costing the team. You're costing us right now.' Maybe I came off that way. He comes out of the game, and I go into the locker room during the game and follow him. He said something along the lines of: 'Bro, get out of my face.'
I didn't talk to him the Monday after the game, but I think Bobby called me that Tuesday and said: 'Bro, I appreciate that. Thank you for being honest.'
Wagner: I think K.J. is mixing up moments, but I'll let you continue.
Wright: No, no, no I'm not. (Laughs). Noooo, nuh uh.
They go back and forth about the details of this for a bit. Then we get back on track.
Wagner: Like I said, more times than not, when I'm wrong, I'll admit that I was wrong. I have no problem apologizing.
Wright: I'll give you that.
K.J., a lot of people have a hard time giving feedback that might initially upset someone, even if they know in the long run they'll be glad for it. Why do you have a hard time doing that?
Wright: My mom used to get on me and press me, she'd be like: 'Son, everybody is not going to like you. You try so hard to be liked by everybody.' And I struggled with that. I was like: 'What do you mean not everybody is going to like me? I don't treat nobody bad, I'm a good person.' I've always struggled with just wanting to be liked. Not wanting to ruffle any feathers.
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I remember that conversation vividly as a kid, and I remember going back and forth with her like, 'Mama, everybody needs to like me.' I guess that's my kryptonite. Or it's a gift and a curse.
It can be a very positive thing, too.
Wright: Right. When you're talking about leadership and having your room one day (as a coach), I can't bulls— my players. I just need to be honest with them and leave it at that and just let them take it as they want to take it.
Bobby, you told me once that your mom told you, 'Make somebody smile today. Smile at somebody today.' I wanted to see if that's something you've kept with you.
Wagner: That's just kind of who I am. I feel like life can be hard. We don't know what people are going through. So if they can run into somebody who can make them smile, you never know what that smile could do for somebody's day. I think that's just naturally who I am and what she did herself.
Wright: I will say, I think it's a combination of natural and thoughtful. I think you're very thoughtful and intentful when it comes to making people's days.
Wagner: I just remember in school there was always that kid that everybody ignored or didn't talk to, and I never understood why. So I'd just go and say what's up to them. You just never know what people are going through or what they're thinking about. Somebody like that, walking through their life feeling unseen, you just saying what's up and making them feel seen can maybe change their life. You never know.
(Illustration: Dan Goldfarb / The Athletic; Ralph Freso / Getty Images)
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