Is this the end of free-to-air TV? A veteran weighs in
Fitz: I can't believe he said that!
Meakin: He did say that, and when Kerry Packer saw it, he was outraged, and we were promptly summoned into his offices in Park Street, and bawled out for discussing virginity in prime time. We defended it, and the argument turned on him not wanting eight minutes of that rubbish on his channel. I said, 'It wasn't eight minutes, Mr Packer'. He said, 'Well, how much was it?' I said, 'It was five minutes, 29 seconds'. He insisted it was eight and took a bet that he was right, and when an executive emerged from the next office with a stopwatch, and it was 5 minutes and 29 seconds, I won. So Kerry gave me a $10 note because I'd won the bet, and we were given a lift back to Channel Nine in his chauffeur-driven Mercedes. And that was Packer; he used to sound off on a number of occasions, and ring up to object to a story, but if you held your ground he'd generally back you, and mutter 'over-ruled again'.
Fitz: At Mike Willesee 's funeral you told a great story of the A Current Affair host standing his ground against Packer?
Meakin: Yes, we ran a promo for a story which covered the infamous 'Goanna' allegations about Packer being involved in organised crime – for which he was subsequently completely exonerated – but straight after the promo went to air, we got a furious phone call from his legal adviser – one Malcolm Turnbull – threatening to sack everyone if the story went ahead. So I advised Mr Willesee that we'd had this call, and what Kerry and Malcolm were threatening. And Willesee said, 'Tell Kerry, if he doesn't like the story, he can sue himself'. We ran the story.
Fitz: All right, well back to the present day, and this week has seen major news shows The Project, which you were heavily involved with, and the ABC's Q&A bite the dust. As a serious question, and you're better qualified than anybody to answer, what is going on?
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Meakin: No show – or very few shows – last forever. I mean, Four Corners and 60 Minutes have been around forever, and probably will be around forever, but everything else seems to have a shelf life, and that's been the case since, since [Christ] played fullback for Jerusalem. Television programs are like restaurants. For a long while, you can't get in because there's such a waiting list, and then all of a sudden people are over it, and no one comes there any more. So you can't necessarily read too much into it.
Fitz: Sure. But as one who loved Q&A, and whose wife was on The Project, I've followed it closely. We can all see that the ratings of these shows have fallen off a cliff in the last few years. Why?
Meakin: Because audiences for most TV shows have fallen off a cliff. People aren't into free-to-air television the way they used to be.
Fitz: This is my point. You and I have children who have certainly heard of free-to-air television but never liked the sound of it, and there's now whole swaths of the population that simply don't watch FTA television at all. Is that what we are witnessing? Are these major programs being axed the death-throes of free-to-air television?
Meakin: That's overstating it. But you know, times are certainly very tough, and really tough for the people who've lost their jobs. And I particularly feel for those I worked with at The Project because they're friends, and in some cases they're finer professionals than many I've worked with at some of the most high-flying programs in Australian TV history.
Fitz: Hopefully, most of them will find their way to the new investigative show Ten has announced, 10 News +. Do you have confidence that it will work?
Meakin: Well, I applaud them for trying. I think whether it works or not is going to depend on the level it's resourced and, as you know, Channel 10 does not have the reputation of throwing money around. They're not in a position to throw money around. But if it's well resourced, fine. As for the investigative angle, that can be very costly ...
Fitz: [ Wryly. ] I've heard it said.
Meakin: But it can be very powerful. I know that some people have been arguing that The Project 's reputation was damaged by the Brittany Higgins interview. Well, I reckon if they – and we – had done more investigative news stories like that, the program would still be there. Against that, while I love investigative journalism, it's hard to raise a business argument for it when it can cost so much money to pursue – and then defend.
Fitz: Way back when I got to know you in the early '90s at the Nine Network, the dictum for news was, 'If it bleeds, it leads'. These days, particularly with radio and TV, it seems to me to be, 'If it hates, it rates'.
Meakin: I don't know about that. That's not a saying I've ever espoused.
Fitz: I know you never did! I just invented it, to summate a lot of what seems to rate well in this age of social media, and for stuff to go viral, which seems to be the constant end game.
Meakin: Oh well, they used to say 'Divide the nation and multiply the ratings', so there's nothing new under the sun, and yes, there are certainly a lot of people here generating conflict, but that's not just in the radio studio or on television.
I mean, a lot of it is coming from places like the White House, where from Trump and Musk just about everything that comes out of their mouth is mendacious. And instead of some of the media doing its job to call out the lies, they put them to air unchallenged, which sees a lot of people believing them. And then when the media does tell the truth, Trump calls them all 'fake news', whereupon his followers then hate the media – and instead go to the sources which can reinforce their prejudice.
Fitz: That is indeed the age we're in. What can the serious media do about it?
Meakin: At the risk of sounding like an old fart, we of the media have got to keep jealously guarding what little reputation we have left, and deliver the news straight, unbiased and as honestly as we possibly can – and hope that the people will come back, as that is precisely what is needed now, and everyone is starting to recognise it.
Fitz: Which brings us to the demise of Q&A, which seemed to me to be a textbook example of how you take a seriously successful show and drive it into the ground, changing formats, changing timeslots, changing hosts every year or two – or even less – and playing it safe with too-often dull guests. Do you agree?
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Meakin: I found it 'worthy'. And when you call a program worthy, it's both a compliment and an insult – but the bottom line is that not enough people found it worthy in a good way. But the first thing to say is the show's been around for 18 years and has had a bloody good innings. But a lot of questions, in my view, sounded very stilted and rehearsed. When it truly worked, there were people in authority answering tough questions. That's not happening any more. And I note here, the ABC's explanation for it being cancelled: 'It's time to rethink how audiences want to interact and to evolve how we can engage with the public, to include as many Australians as possible in national conversations.' Well, there's a bureaucratic gob-full if ever I heard one!
Fitz: What would Kerry Packer do, if he had control of programs like The Project and Q&A in this situation?
Meakin: Kerry, God bless him, wasn't blessed with patience. And he didn't like being beaten. So I suspect he would have sacked an executive producer or two and demanded changes to the format before pulling the pin. Fixing a failing program isn't easy. The causes are inevitably a matter of debate. The solutions can be cruel and may not work. So it's often easier to wield the axe.
Fitz: When Q&A debuted in 2008 it was one of the first to harness Twitter, so the audience could make commentary on it in real time, building a live buzz and with it an audience that would start to tune in. These days, social media seems to be having the opposite effect?
Meakin: Well, I think social media has made it very hard for people to be opinionated on television. And what's the point of making a stand or expressing an opinion honestly held when, within seconds, half the population is going to want to decapitate you?
Fitz: You do what I do. You don't read 99.9 per cent of it, and you pity the poor bastards with such tiny lives that they have nothing better to do with their time than emit anonymous toxic farts in the Twitter wind.
Meakin: That's what Waleed did – declined to read any social media at all – and right now, he doesn't seem to have a gig. But he is too good not to have one soon. It will go on. There will always be a need for media people like him. They just need the right format and platform.
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Sydney Morning Herald
17 hours ago
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Hey, Torvill and Dean, remember the time I danced with you?
Fitz: What is it? Torvill: Bolero is obviously a very special routine because it opened the door for the future, and we wouldn't still be doing what we're doing without that. Fitz: So let's go back to the romance one! The personal chemistry and physical intimacy that you two display on ice as you dance is so wonderful; it dinkum is amazing that you can do it without ever having been a couple. Was there never a time, Chris, when you said to Jayne, surely, 'Let's go and see a film Saturday night?' And she said, 'No, forget it.' Dean: No, never like that. We have spent a lot of time together, seeing movies, going for drinks, and the theatre, all of those things. And of course, we've been together on many long tours, like when we were touring Australia for the first time. We were meant to be coming for just two weeks, but ended up staying for three months doing shows, and then stayed a further nine months putting a show together. So we were in Sydney area for almost a year, and we made lots of friends. Fitz: [ Painfully persisting ] So never in that year, two young English athletes a long way from home, did you exchange smouldering looks over your Vegemite on toast ... Torvill: No, our main focus was getting the work done. You know, we had just turned professional, and for us, it was an exciting time in that we weren't competing anymore and we didn't have any rules and regulations of competition. So, in fact, you know, we were free to be more creative, which is something that we've always enjoyed. Fitz: What about blues then? There must have come a time over the last 45 years when you two were dancing, when Chris lifted you up, Jayne, so you could do a twirly gig and the booger didn't catch you properly? Surely, there must have been times where, to use the Australian expression, you came an absolute cropper, occasioning strong words? Torvill: No. Lucky for us, we never did have any major falls in competition, which is what counts. Falls in training, you accept. But we trained so hard that to be ready for anything, that we didn't really make any mistakes. So, no 'blues'. Fitz: Moving on! By some reckoning, the pop group ABBA was said to be a bigger success in Australia, even than in Sweden. There was something about ABBA that Australia, more than pretty much any other country, loved. Is it possible that the same applies to you two, that Australia loves Torvill and Dean more than even Britain loves Torvill and Dean, and that we loved you more than anywhere else on Earth. Dean: Maybe. When we first came to Australia, it was such a surprise for us to be so welcomed. The Australian promoter had pre-booked the Russian Olympic figure-skating team, thinking that they would win everything at the 1984 Sarajevo Winter Olympics, and they didn't. We did. And so the promoter said, 'We've got to get those bloody Poms down here.' And so within a very short time, somebody came over to see us and gave us a contract, and we came down to Australia and we were adored. I mean, they tell the story of when the tickets first went on sale, that the line instantly formed up right round the Sydney Entertainment Centre. Fitz: Which is very odd, yes? Because in Sydney, we're surfers, netballers, cricketers, footballers, but not really, as a people, ice skaters – with only a rink or two open on a good day? Dean: Yeah, I think what happened, Channel Nine were the host broadcasters at the Olympics, and we became very popular because they gave us a lot of air time. And we became the base of promoting the Winter Olympics in Australia. And, there were also a lot of British expats who took to us, right? Fitz: Whatever else, our love affair with you has been enduring. We also have a saying that a person has had 'more comebacks than Dame Nellie Melba', lately replaced by 'more farewell tours than Johnny Farnham'. Whoever, with you two, came up with the title for your tour, Our Last Dance, has to be commended, because it captures the imagination. But seriously, seriously, when you perform your last dance in Sydney [at Qudos on Sunday afternoon], when you come off the ice, is that really going to be it for you two? Your last dance? Dean: It will certainly be our last performance skating in Australia. But then we go back to Nottingham, our hometown, and we actually do four performances there, and then on the last day, that will be our last skating performance, live skating performance, that we will do. You know, we've been skating together now for 50 years, and we think that that's a good round number to sort of call it a day from the performing side. And the body is ready to say it's time as well. Fitz: But don't you think that five years from now, one of you might say, 'I'm in your town, I'm going to put on a red wig. You put on a blonde one, and I'll see you down at the rink, and just one last time in the moonlight, let's dance?' Torvill: It's not to say that we won't ever skate on the ice together, but we won't actually be performing together. So we may be together like choreographing or teaching somebody. We'll do other things together, but just not performing. This is it. Fitz: Chris? Don't you think that you might just do it one more time in the moonlight, when you're 80, one more time to capture the magic, one more time without anybody knowing, just the two of you? Dean: [ Thoughtfully ] I'm not saying that we won't do that ... but it's not something that we would show off to anybody ... It would be personal. Fitz: Bingo! Now, without being too mealy-mouthed about it, your dancing ability on ice must be comparable, in terms of how much it's celebrated, with Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Did you two ever watch footage of their dancing and swoon? T & D: Yes! Dean: They were very much a part of our viewing and we took a lot from them in their style and the movement and their performance quality. Yeah, absolutely, they were our idols. Fitz: You mentioned that you two have been doing it for 50 years. That means – dot three, carry one, subtract two – you must have started in the mid-70s. How much have your physical abilities waned? Are there many things you used to be able to do, that you simply cannot do now? Torvill: There are things that have got harder as we got older, and we're no longer 25, but we still feel that we can put on a show that we're happy with. And we've put it together with some amazing [younger] skaters from around the world. So we're really excited by the show, and the show itself tells a story, our story, right from the beginning, up until now. Loading Fitz: When Mick Jagger was 23 years old, he said, 'I hope I'm not still singing Can't Get No Satisfaction when I'm 30.' Could you two have conceived that you'd still be going 50 years later? And would you have been thrilled? Torvill: No and yes. We would never have imagined it would have been possible. Back then, when skaters turned professional, they would maybe do two years, three years in a professional show, and then, you know, sort of maybe go into teaching or just retire anyway. We've just been so lucky, with the way things happened for us that we were able to create several different tours, and then go back to the Olympics in '94 because that became a possibility, and that extended our professional careers. Dean: And then, in more recent times, television people came and said, would we be interested in teaching celebrities to skate? And that's when Dancing On Ice was born. And that extended us, too.
