Brooklyn's Finest: Spike Lee on Future of Hollywood, Latest Film, and What Happens if Knicks Win It All
Spike Lee is happy.
The legendary director is running around the headquarters of his world-famous production studio, 40 Acres and a Mule Filmworks, getting ready to sit down for this interview and photo shoot. Like most artists whose time is money, he makes quick decisions on the fly — this time involving his wardrobe — and moves with an earnestness and motivation that could come off as brash to the uninitiated. If you didn't know any better, you would think he wasn't having any fun.
Then he sits down to start the interview, and as soon as the cameras start rolling, that classic Spike smile emerges, and it becomes clear: His favorite place to be, his happy place, even after all these years, is behind or in front of a camera.
Of course, in early May of 2025, Lee has a lot to be happy about. The 68-year-old writer/director/producer/actor who was born in Atlanta, but raised in the Republic of Brooklyn is in full promotion mode, doing the rounds to talk about his 24th film, , a reimagining, as he puts it, of Akira Kurosawa's 1963 Japanese film High and Low. While the film marks a lot of firsts for Lee — his first time working with New York-based indie film studio A24 and his first time distributing a film with Apple TV+ — it also acts as a reunion of two of the best collaborators Hollywood has ever seen. According to Lee, the only reason he agreed to direct the film was because his good friend, Academy Award-winner Denzel Washington, was attached to the script. This will be the dynamic duo's (as he calls them) fifth time working together, with this year marking the 35th anniversary of their first production, 1990's Mo' Betta Blues.
The film is set to be screened at Cannes on Monday, May 19th. A day, Lee says, holds a lot of special meanings. It's the day his second joint, Do The Right Thing, the film that made him a star, premiered back in 1989. It's Malcolm X's birthday, with this year marking what would have been his 100th trip around the sun. And, because it's a Monday this year, it means Broadway is dark, which means Denzel is able to fly to Cannes to premiere the film with his longtime friend. 'I believe [in] my heart of hearts, my brother, this is not an accident,' he says.
Monday, May 19, is also a rest day for his beloved New York Knicks, who have finally put the pieces together and made it out of the second round of the playoffs with a devastating win over the Boston Celtics. If you don't know Spike Lee, you should know he loves these three things: his family, film, and the Knicks. He's had season tickets since 1985, buying them the day after Patrick Ewing was drafted with the No. 1 pick from Georgetown University. Few people are bigger fans of any sports team than Lee is of the Knicks. A collector at heart, he has some of the rarest, coolest pieces adorning the walls of his office. Such as a real 1973 Championship banner from the Garden.
Despite the film and sports memorabilia decorating his headquarters, Lee is happiest looking towards the future. He lights up when he talks about Ryan Coogler's latest film, Sinners. 'I haven't seen a film like this in years. I was jumping up [when it was over].' Lee, a professor at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, believes that the film industry is in good hands with artists like Coogler and Michael B. Jordan pushing the boundaries. He also believes his own students, who are making films for a world in which young people would rather watch everything on their phones, are going to make a difference. Will one of them be the next Spike Lee? Who knows. What is known is that the real Spike Lee is still able to captivate audiences and command the attention of both fans and the industry.
Why wouldn't he be happy?
Before Spike flew to Cannes, Boardroom sat down with him at his Fort Greene office for a conversation that spanned his new film, his old films, the Knicks, NYC sports, Mark Jackson, Michael Jackson, Prince, A$AP Rocky, and more.
This interview has been edited for length & clarity
Rich Kleiman: We are in the People's Republic of Brooklyn, New York, Fort Greene. Fort Greene with the prodigal son and New York's biggest sports fan, my friend Spike Lee.
SL: Well, thank you very much. Glad to be here at the world headquarters of Four Acres and a Mule.
RK: When you think about the Knicks, there's no bigger Knick fan in the world than you. There are certain periods in Knicks history that are kind of memorialized in my mind. So I look at different eras. I wasn't alive for the 1970 era, but I was alive for Patrick Ewing, Starks, Oakley, Mark Jackson.
Mark Jackson was my favorite Knick of all time.
SL: Off topic. Why can't he get another job in the NBA?
RK: It's been something that's bothered me. It pains me. It's a joke, to be honest with you. I think this is sadly like a version of a narrative that just perpetuated in some ways.
SL: Yeah. How many years ago was that? It's still going on.
RK: It was 10 years now. 10 years.
SL: I mean, he laid the foundation. I love Steve Kerr, peace and love, Steve, I love you. But [Jackson] laid the foundation for that team.
RK: And for Steph and Klay and Draymond's confidence is what they talk about a lot. What he was able to instill in them about why not us and Steph playing the way Steph plays, the inflection point. Steph's career happened when Mark was coaching him. I agree with you. A lot of it has to do with narrative.
SL: That's a mini-series.
RK: That is a mini-series that perpetuated itself. It's like the story was told, and then the story continues to get told. And I think with Mark, there were so many things I once said to Mark as a joke, everyone said he was like this bible thumping preacher. And I said to him, I was like, bro, is it true you took Steph to church to heal his ankles? When you say things like that, everybody is, it was like one little subplot in him. You know what he said to me? 'Did his ankles heal? Didn't his ankles heal?'
RK: So as you know, the Mark Jackson era is my favorite Knicks Era, right? This Starks, Oakley, Mark Jackson era. And obviously, you love every era of the Knicks. You're as loyal as they get. But is this era, the era in your mind, that has more of your heart than any other time in Knicks history?
SL: Yes, for sure, for sure. I love these guys. Lemme tell a quick story though. Every time I see John Starks, I hug him. Going back. Game 5, Reggie [Miller] went insane. The next day, my face is on the cover. I'm on the front and the back of the Daily News, front and the back of the New York Post, front and the back of Newsday. I was the most hated person in New York City.
The next game was Game 6 in Indiana. And people were saying the radio, 'Spike don't go, don't go!' I said, 'I got to go.'
Then before the game, I visit Mike Tyson because he was [in prison] in Indiana. The whole prison's against me.
So that game, Indiana was up in the fourth quarter, and the ushers put up a court rope to stop like a stampede. And then John Starks got hot. So right now, John is probably tired of getting hugged every time he sees the Spike. But he says, alright, I even know number hugs. And the reason why I hugged them is because the season was extended to game seven, came back to the Garden to tip in by Patrick.
RK: Yeah, your safety was extended. Do you also take pride in knowing how much everyone knows you love the Knicks? I feel like there was a period at the Garden that was so quiet and depressing, and your presence was the one consistent light; you stayed down for them, do or die.
SL: My father was a Knicks fan. It's who you are. It's in your blood. It's in your blood. And also, we haven't won an NBA championship in over 50 years. That's five decades!
RK: I cannot imagine what you'll be like when the Knicks win another championship. Man, I can't even
SL: New York mad is going to be insanity.
RK: So I just want to clear this up because it seems like you're a New York sports fan of all teams. I even had you in Brooklyn during that little run. But are you Giants or Jets?
SL: When I was growing up in Brooklyn, here were my guys: Namath, Mayes, Ali, and Claude Frazier. I was a kid. I idolized these guys, and I got to meet 'em later on. I mean, when you are a kid, these guys are gods, and you get to meet 'em and they know your films. That's a great, great feeling.
RK: You are such a fan of other people's greatness. What is it that still gets you so excited about this access you've had for 40 years?
SL: Because the people that are my heroes and she-roes. They have a God-given gift, and they maximized it. When you see somebody like that and they're at the top of their craft, at the top of their game, whatever it is, that's Godlike for me.
Funny story, me and Prince were tight, and we would see each other maybe once every five years. There's a famous picture of us sitting together at the All-Star Game. People would look it up. The last one was in New York. I said, 'Prince, I need a guitar. I'm a collector.' Prince looked at me like I had three heads. Then, a year later, this big ass guitar case shows up.
But another thing is that I did this film, Girl Six, and I had this thing. I said, 'I want to use this song, nothing but Prince's music.' I told him.
He read the script. I mean, he didn't just say right away, we read the script, said, 'Spike any song, you want my catalog, you got it.' That's trust.
RK: Is the relationship that you and Denzel have unique in that way, where he knows what a fan you are of his in that relationship?
SL: It's mutual. But here's the thing though, me and Denzel don't really hang out. Inside Man was 18 years ago. Time flies. So when the Knicks are in LA, yo that's all coming in.
We don't hang out. But when we're together, it's like something special.
RK: Your newest film together, Highest 2 Lowest, how did this script come to you?
SL: Denzel was attached to it, and I said, 'Let's go.'
Denzel's range. Othello, Malcolm X. There were many times cast and crew, we were pinching ourselves because to our minds, to our eyes, and to our heart, we were seeing Malcolm, not Denzel Washington. We were seeing Malcolm.
I tell the story a lot. But this one scene was a kind of long because the speeches were Malcolm's actual words. And back then, it was film and it runs out. So, 35-millimeter, 10 minutes, it rolls out. So I'm looking at the script while Denzel's going.
And as far as the script rules for that scene, it was over. And Denzel kept going. And Ernest Dickerson said to me, 'Spike, we rolled out.'
So I went up to Denzel, his eyes was glazed over. I said, 'D, what was that?' He said, 'Spike, I don't know.'
And here's the thing with biofilms, a lot of times, they got the hair right, wardrobe, speech. But what Denzel did was he started rehearsing a year before the camera started to roll because he knew to be successful, to be a winner, that this cannot be impersonation. And because of that work that Denzel put in, he knew that if he did the work, the spirit of Malcolm [would take over]. That's why we saw that thing where he was off script, the script, it was done. And he went out for another minute.
I'm telling you, you asked him, I was on set. We were like, what the f***?
RK: So your mind's still blown by working with him?
SL: Let's relate to sports where somebody's hot. Let's say Curry, right? He's 50 feet out many times in the locker room interviews. What happened? And the athlete says, 'I don't know. I was in the zone.'
It's in your mind, it's in your heart.
Another thing, when that s*** comes, you got to write it down. If you don't write that s*** down, if you are in bed, it's four in the morning, you better wake your ass up and start writing that s*** down.
RK: One thing that has changed in 18 years is the film business. You did your last film on Netflix. You just did this film with A24 and Apple. A24 is like the premier brand right now in Hollywood. What makes them such an incredible organization?
SL: They're here in New York. I think that's a lot to do with it. It's different than LA. You go to LA, you get in the car, drive to the studio, you have no interaction with people. Not New York. It is a different vibe.
I'm not hating on LA, but there's an energy. You could be away for a long time, you get off of that plane at LaGuardia or JFK, and energy, it hits you in the face.
RK: So, you think that's at the core of what makes A24?
SL: They got smart people. But I'm just saying New York is [something different].
RK: With the state of Hollywood, a frequently discussed topic centers on the theater-going experience. I assume Highest to Lowest will be in theaters. First, you're going to go to Cannes for the premiere, then it'll be in theaters, and then it'll stream on Apple. Does the state of Hollywood impact you now?
SL: The theater experience will always be important to me. When you're in a theater, man, I remember waiting in line in freezing weather to see The Exorcist. I remember waiting in line to see Jaws in the summer. I remember wanting to see Alien and The Godfather, and I mean, where the theater's packed, that feeling when a film is hitting on levels, I don't care how big your TV is in your living room. When you're in the theater, it's just like you are all vibing on what we're saying.
[Takes out a cell phone]
Can you imagine people looking at The Godfather? I mean like this [Points at his phone] and then it's not even like this. They're looking at it like this.
It's not how it's meant to be.
RK: Amidst all these changes, what do you tell a young filmmaker?
SL: You know what I'm glad you brought up. So I can say this. I'm a tenured professor of film at NYU. I've been teaching there 30 years. And Ernest Dickers, who shot all my films, Ang Lee, we were all in the same class. And Jim Jamus was two years ahead of us. But not to sound like an old fuddy-duddy. Lemme see the phone again. The reason why I went to film school, because you can get access to the equipment. [Brings the phone back out]. This has brought access to young filmmakers. So I can't hate on that.
RK: Sinners was incredible.
SL: Yeah, let me tell a story. So I was in LA, the phone rings. It was Ryan. He said, 'Spike, you in LA?' 'Yeah, I'm here.' He said, 'We're testing the final IMAX thing of Sinners. Can you get here in an hour?'
I haven't seen a film like this in years. I was jumping up [when it was over]. I'm sitting next to Ryan, and I wrote, I'm jumping up and down. It's like I'm at the Garden and we're kicking the Celtics ass.
Here's the thing that I put on Instagram again because people like trying to start some s***. The love that Denzel and I have for Ryan and Michael [B. Jordan] is nothing but love. And it's mutual! You will never see no s*** like, we're beefing. That ain't never going to happen.
I want to squash that s*** before it starts.
This is the year of Black cinema and Highest 2 Lowest. It is love, it's admiration, where you want people to be the best they could be. There ain't no f****** competition. There's room enough for everybody to thrive. For you to thrive doesn't mean that you're hating on somebody else. That s*** got to go.
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A post shared by Spike Lee (@officialspikelee)
RK: Those are probably the same people that are making a big deal about the deal that Ryan Coogler got for himself when this kid, here's the thing,
SL: This is not the first time in history where an actor who has the power has sent my contract after specific time, the motherf****** film reverts back to me. It's not the first time this f****** hatred on a brother doing this. Oh, now that's the crime.
That s***'s so obvious where that critique's coming from.
When people called you something, now it's a crime. But you been doing this s*** ever from the get go. Get the f*** out of here. Straight up.
RK: Let me ask you about someone else. Hip-hop has been so aligned and intertwined throughout your career, and your projects, and just who you are. How do you see the state of hip-hop, and how important is someone like Kendrick?
SL: Kendrick? I think he's revitalized hip-hop and that halftime show. People will be talking about that for a decade. I mean, people still asking – we're in May? People still saying, did you see the Super Bowl show?
That was the beginning of February, right? Black History Month. Something like that where it's like a cultural moment it's just like, it's like a tornado. It's like just coming through.
RK: You have a relationship with him?
SL: I've never met him before. I'd like to.
RK: You've lived a billion lives, Spike, and it feels like your exposure to all of this talent has allowed you maybe this gift to be able to pluck people from outside the world of film to be in your movies, right? You did it with Ray Allen, and in this new film, you did it with A$AP Rocky?
SL: Before Ray Allen in He Got Game. Let's go to Do the Right Thing, that was Rosie Perez's first film. Lawrence [Fishburn's] first film.
ASAP, he was in a film, Monster, my wife Tanya produced. It was him and [Denzel's son] John David Washington playing opposite each other.
Denzel is a beast. I mean, when you see a championship fight, you want to see somebody who's going to test them. So in a movie, if you had two characters, they're like, going head to head. You got to cast somebody who's going to hold his ground with Denzel and ASAP's Harlem. So he held his ground.
They go toe to toe. And that's what makes it exciting. And Denzel is so intimidating.
RK: Before we wrap up, tell me about the film from the [perspective of the] excited director, Spike Lee.
SL: I know I've used this word a million times in this interview, but I cannot just belittle the word blessing. What do you want to make it? A religious connotation, whatever you want to do. But when you were given gifts, it's not like these things happen every day.
For Denzel to think of me to work with one of his last films, and for us to work together on [a reimagination] of the great films ever made by one of the great filmmakers, Akira Kurosawa, a Japanese filmmaker whom I got to meet.
Here's the thing, I believe in the spirit. May 19, 1989, was the world premiere of Do the Right Thing.
May 19, 2025, will be the world premiere of Highest 2 Lowest. May 19, 2025, will be Malcolm X's 100th birthday.
May 19 is a Monday, and that's the only day Broadway is dark. May 19 is a Monday, and Denzel will be in Cannes. And this will be the first time that Denzel's been to Cannes with the film. Denzel in 1992 brought the, brought Malcolm X to us.
I believe it in my heart of hearts, my brother, this is not an accident. This is not like some lucky s***. No, this s*** lined up. I can't wait to see this movie, bro. Whatever you want to call it. Kismit, pick your choice. That's not an accident.
May 19, what happens if so out of nowhere, May 19, 2025, is on a Monday. The only day that Broadway is dark. The only day you won't see Denzel on stage. That was not just some happenstance s***. Hell no. Hell to the nah.
RK: Do you know your place in history?
SL: It's not something I've thought about. No one's ever asked me that question. In two years, I'm going to be 70. Not like I'm packing it up, I got to keep building my body of work and keep teaching and really share my knowledge and yes, wisdom, but also with the mishaps and the falls and still of my students that you got to make your motherf****** films do or die.
RK: So let me ask you again, do you know your place in history? Do you understand what you've meant to so many people? What your films have meant? The walls you've kicked down?
SL: You know what, I got an answer for you. Not in Boston! [laughs hysterically]
RK: You are a one of one, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you.
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