Heads of UW system, state agencies defend diversity, inclusion practices to audit committee

Universities of Wisconsin President Jay Rothman and UW-Madison Jennifer Mnookin told lawmakers that the DEI practices throughout the system are constantly evolving.
President of the Dane County NAACP chapter Greg Jones was the only member of the public to testify at a Joint Audit Committee hearing Tuesday on two recent audits into the diversity, equity and inclusion practices of state agencies and the Universities of Wisconsin. His message to lawmakers was simple: listen to individuals' stories about the impact of diversity, equity and inclusion programs and stay away from politicized attacks on DEI.
'If the question is about whether DEI is functioning or not, whether it's effective or not, then do it — assess it, examine it and make the case, but don't let the politicized environment we now face become an issue of concern,' Jones said.
Jones told lawmakers on the committee about his own experience working in what was then known as the American Ethnic Coordinate office at UW-Eau Claire many years ago. His responsibilities in that 'first iteration for the stuff called DEI, belonging and so forth' was ensuring that African-American, Native American, Hispanic American and white students were comfortable on campus.
'It caused me to do a lot of different things. I worked with them to facilitate transportation back home to Kenosha, Racine when they lost a family member, helped them get that money from the financial aid office, advocated for them with English teachers who wouldn't accept Black English as a… method of communication in the class, even when writing poetry, short stories, or any other literary form,' Jones said.
Jones added that these efforts helped students succeed in school and were designed to accomplish similar goals to the many DEI initiatives across UW campuses today.
'They're trying to do the same thing: make those students, who don't live in those communities, are not from those communities, who don't relate culturally, racially, ethnically, economically to members of that community, [feel] comfortable.'
Jones' comments came after four hours of back and forth between the leaders of the state Department of Administration (DOA) and the University of Wisconsin system, who defended their DEI practices, and lawmakers on the Joint Legislative Audit Committee. Republicans on the committee pressed the leaders on the results of recent audits and criticized DEI efforts saying they are 'racist' and do not benefit the state.
Republican lawmakers launched the audits into DEI practices last year after getting concessions from the UW system on cutting back DEI in 2023. The lawmakers then expressed their intent to continue targeting and trying to eliminate diversity programs.
The audit results, which were released earlier this month, come as Republican lawmakers have felt emboldened by a U.S. Supreme Court decision that ended consideration of race in admission processes and as the Trump administration has made targeting and eliminating DEI efforts, especially in K-12 and higher education, one of its top priorities. According to a recent poll by Pew Reseach Center, 54% of Americans disapprove of the Trump administration's actions to end DEI in the federal government, while 44% approve.
Committee co-chair Sen. Eric Wimberger (R-Oconto) opened the hearing on the audits by attacking diversity, equity and inclusion, saying that it 'abandons the pursuit of a colorblind society' and demands 'stereotyping.' He said the audits 'expose the waste and unconstitutionality of rebranded discrimination based on immutable characteristics.'
Wimberger added he would be seeking information from leaders on how the practices would be 'abandoned' or how each DEI initiative 'satisfies a compelling government interest and is narrowly tailored to accomplish that interest.'
The DOA audit focused on actions that have been taken in accordance with Executive Order 59, which Gov. Tony Evers signed in 2019 to instruct state agencies to create equity and inclusion plans. Auditors analyzed how much is spent by agencies for DEI activities, including for staffing, and reviewed reported outcomes resulting from DEI activities.
The audit found that none of the 24 state agencies tracked the amount they were spending on DEI, though the audit attempts to estimate some of the costs. According to the audit in 2023-24, agencies spent $2.16 million for salary costs for positions with job duties pertaining to DEI, $705,300 for salary costs for time spent attending diversity, equity, and inclusion training required by the executive order, $444,300 on costs for completing certain actions listed in equity and inclusion action plans and $200,200 for salary costs for time spent attending meetings of DEI committees.
It also found that agencies did not consistently document that they had corrected issues of noncompliance that DOA had identified, and that DOA did not consistently require agencies to take corrective action. The audit recommended that DOA improve its monitoring efforts and ensure that it comply with the executive order and other statutory and administrative rules related to affirmative action.
The UW audit found that UW institutions planned DEI activities and programs mostly at an institutional level, and not across the board. There is no system wide definition of DEI and implementation of DEI activities were left up to the decision of each institution.
The UW audit similarly found that spending related to DEI was not specifically tracked across the system. According to the audit during the 2023-24 fiscal year, there were $40,221,000 in costs for UW offices with duties pertaining to DEI, $12,484,900 in estimated salary costs for positions with duties related to DEI and $7,911,900 in working on certain diversity, equity, and inclusion activities listed in selected strategic plans and diversity, equity, and inclusion plans.
Republicans expressed contempt for DEI related programs and practices repeatedly throughout the hearing.
Sen. Chris Kapenga (R-Delafield) said at one point that he was 'encouraged by the lack of implementation' of Evers' executive order.
'The programs are disgusting. It's racist,' Kapenga said.
Democrats on the committee rejected Republicans' characterizations of DEI — defending the practices and also seeking to understand the cost of the audit itself, which took 10 months to complete and included extensive interviews by the LAB of the agencies and UW institutions to compile the information included.
Rep. Sequanna Taylor (D-Milwaukee) said that DEI practices are not meant to be racist.
'It is meant to be a step … so that we ensure everyone is successful in their learning opportunities,' Taylor said.
Sen. Melissa Ratcliff (D-Cottage Grove) asked LAB how much money was spent preparing the report.
State Auditor Joe Chrisman said the LAB spent about $423,000.
In her testimony, DOA Secretary-designee Kathy Blumenfield said that her agency's DEI practices have been beneficial for recruiting and retaining employees.
Blumenfield also reminded lawmakers that a year ago when lawmakers were launching the audit she told them it would be hard because the work of DEI 'isn't done exclusively by one agency, nor is it a program staffed by specific employees with policies and procedures.' She brought up concerns about the methodology of the audit, saying that the audit likely overstated costs.
One example, Blumenfield said, was in relation to town hall events that were hosted by the Department of Workforce Development. The audit lists the events as costing $165,400 in 2023-24, however, Blumenfield said DEI wasn't the main focus.
'The content of these meetings included a wide variety of other topics unrelated to [the executive order]… Only 12% of the town hall meeting could be associated with [the executive order], which would equate to a cost of only $19,800 — reducing [the agency's] total estimated cost by 86%,' Blumenfield said.
Blumenfield also said that many of the activities and positions that were covered in the audit existed in previous administrations and were already required by state law — before the Evers executive order.
Blumenfield said she thinks DEI practices have been beneficial to the state and that 'luckily' the audit didn't opine on whether DEI was good or bad.
'This was very, very difficult and very, very challenging,' Blumenfield said, adding that she sees the audit as actually 'telling us to lean in more to this work.'
'If you look at the actual recommendations out of the audit, it's saying do more in this space,' Blumenfield continued.
Rep. Mark Born (R-Beaver Dam) said he is concerned with whether the audit finds the agency complies with the law and DEI programs are a good use of state resources. He said he couldn't 'wrap my head around' why the state needs DEI to recruit candidates.
Blumenfield said that DOA is complying with the law and that the agency is trying to explore ways, including nontraditional ones, to ensure the workforce represents the people of Wisconsin better.
'What you just said there is super important because you didn't say we want our applicants [to be] a little more diverse,' Born said. 'You said you want the workforce… How do you make it look more like the state if you're not hiring people based on race … gender or whatever?'
DOA legislative advisor Cara Connors responded that outreach is important.
'Historically, you had folks who didn't even apply to state jobs,' Connors said. She added that outreach was 'not because we need to put a thumb on the scale in the hiring process and look at race. It was that we needed to get these people to apply to jobs in the first place.'
One example they used to illustrate the point is outreach to female engineers.
'Female engineers are really hard to come by. [The Public Service Commission] has a really hard time just retaining and recruiting engineers, so they've sent their female engineers to the career fairs and all of a sudden they're attracting more female engineers,' Blumenfield said. 'This isn't rocket science.'
In response to a question from Rep. Dan Knodl (R-Germantown), Blumenfield clarified that there are no quotas for these programs.
'If I'm at a career fair and I'm a woman and I don't see anyone that looks like me, you know, I might not be as excited to apply with that organization as if I see someone that I can see myself in,' Blumenfield said.
Knodl asked whether there are any engineer positions currently open.
'Are there male engineers available to fill those spots? Are you keeping them open for female engineers?' Knodl asked.
'No we don't do that,' Connors responded. Blumenfield asked if he knew any engineers, and Knodl said his son is an engineer.
Wimberger argued that by implementing DEI programs, people are presuming things about people based on 'immutable characteristics.'
'Respectfully, Senator, I think this committee is conflating this idea of what DEI is with what's actually happening at the state agencies,' Connor said. 'What's happening at the state agencies is what the secretary is describing. It's this effort to recruit and retain talent in line with [several factors].' She used the example of the American with Disabilities Act, noting that it's an anti-discrimination law.
'If I'm building a building, and I have multiple floors, I have to have an elevator, I have to have ramps,' Connors said.
'If I wanted to help people with disabilities, would I build a ramp?' Wimberger asked.
'If you want them to access your building,' Connors said.
'Not if their disability isn't related to mobility,' Wimberger shot back.
Sen. Melissa Ratcliff asked about the time the agencies spent complying with the audit.
Blumenfield said they spent over 600 hours — or more than 75 eight-hour work days.
'That took us, actually, away from the work that we were doing to try and achieve a lot of the outcomes,' Blumenfield said.
Universities of Wisconsin President Jay Rothman and UW-Madison Jennifer Mnookin told lawmakers that the DEI practices throughout the system are constantly evolving and are important to student success.
Rothman said he has come to think of DEI as 'a broad concept that includes differences in political ideology and religious beliefs, first generation status, disabled status, veteran status, in addition to those who would come from historically underrepresented groups' and that UW's focus is 'on each individual student as an individual to ensure their success as a student and to ensure that they leave our universities with enhanced level of cultural competency.'
Wimberger asked about whether UW-Madison has scholarships that consider race.
Mnookin said that while it was considered as a 'modest' factor in admissions before the U.S. Supreme Court decision, that is no longer the case. She added that the U.S. Supreme Court decision does not directly speak to scholarships and that there are a few exceptions to this at UW-Madison because of some state statutes.
'Nobody is getting a scholarship from UW Madison on the basis of the racial preference,' Mnookin said. 'We also are no longer accepting new scholarships from donors that call out identity characteristics in that way.'
Some Republican lawmakers also asked about LaVar J. Charlteston, the UW-Madison chief diversity officer who was demoted from his position due to financial concerns including 'highly atypical and excessive spending across multiple dimensions — from bonuses to compensation adjustments to travel, supplies and furnishings.' Wimberger asked if UW would fill the position he left vacant.
Mnookin said she has a new part-time advisor, but it is not the same.
'It is not at all the same role that Dr. Charlteston had,' Mnookin said. 'We were trying to think about what does pluralism look like? How do we create a culture where conversations across our differences, no matter your identity or no matter your beliefs, are something that is happening?'
Mnookin said they are also working on implementing new financial controls with consultation from Deloitte to help prevent further occurrences like this.
'I don't begrudge you for doing that,' Wimberger said.
Rep. Robert Wittke (R-Caledonia), who expressed concerns about the variety of DEI definitions on campus, asked Rothman what the system is going to do to work on setting a standard across campuses.
'There was the sense coming out of the audit that we didn't have a sense of what's going on. I don't think that's a fair characterization,' Rothman said.
During the hearing, Rothman commended Mnookin for her work, particularly naming the Deliberation Dinners she has hosted, which are an opportunity for students to participate in conversations about controversial issues. Mnookin said it is part of their work to make people feel included on campus.
'Part of what we are trying to create — and, Senator, I acknowledge that we have further work to do — is a place where, whatever your background or your identity you can feel comfortable sharing perspectives,' Mnookin said.
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