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Yahoo
3 days ago
- Business
- Yahoo
Don Lemon on leaving TV and betting big on himself
Money, success, and starting over. From growing up in a segregated neighborhood in Baton Rouge to earning $5 an hour in his first media job, Emmy Award-winning journalist Don Lemon shares how his earliest financial lessons shaped his views on wealth, self-worth, and ambition. Don opens up to David and John Auten-Schneider about the myth of media money, the reality of lifestyle creep, and how homeownership became his greatest wealth-building tool. Don also gets candid about the financial risks of entrepreneurship post-CNN, and what he learned from spending too much too fast. For full episodes of Living Not So Fabulously, listen on your favorite podcast platform or watch on our website. Yahoo Finance's Living Not So Fabulously is produced by Dennis Golin. I've been wanting to start my own thing for a while, but I didn't know quite how to do it. But, you know, leaving CNN was the, the sort of the push that I needed to, to put to get me to, to do it. Wel Welcome to Living not so fabulously. Well, real talk means real money with just enough flair to keep the lights on and the drama low interest. So David,quick question for you. When I say lemon drop, do you think of a martini or do you think of Don Lemon?Hm, I don't know. I mean, I guess maybe a little bit of both. I mean, sipping on a lemon drop while getting served hot takes by Don Lemon. That's kind of the way we take our politics these days, isn't it? Exactly, it's the only way you can get through, right? So and now I'm Lemon is an award-winning journalist known for his bold reporting and unapologetic truth telling. From Baton Rouge to CNN primetime, he's stirred headlines as often as he's delivered them. Whether challenging power or dancing in Sag Harbor, Don brings the truth, and a little bit of glitter. Welcome to the show, Don Lemon. Hi guys, did you just say you're thirsty?Yeah, well, he's somewhere, right? No, I thought you meant like thirsty, like a thirst trap thirsty, but that's, that's a constant, isn't it? That's how are you guys doing? We're doing well. Well, thank you so much for joining us. So we're going to go on the way back machine here. Growing up in Baton Rouge, can you remember what were your earliest memories about money and you know, financial security? Well, look, kids don't know that they're poor. I wouldn't say I was poor, but you don't know like, you know, what your parents' financial right? So I just thought that we were rich, right? And so, um, and then I didn't realize until I grew up and moved to New York City that like, oh, wait a minute, you were not rich. This is real wealth. But, uh, um, I, I just remember like my mom, I'm working really hard. My dad working really hard and um you know we lived we lived a great life, but um, they made us so comfortable that that we thought that we were rich. But um I quickly learned that you know once I got into the business world, and once I left I'd have to, you know, create my own wealth and and hopefully generational wealth for the ones who come behind me. Yeah, I love that. It, it is, I, I, I really appreciate that you said your parents tried to make you feel uh like you were rich, because my parents were just the opposite, and I know for me it, it, it formed a scarcity mindset in, in my mind because I would constantly hear, we don't have money for this, we don't have money for that. And that especially during those early years, like 5 to 7 years.I constantly heard that from my parents. It really does mess with your brain. It can, yeah. Well, I mean, money doesn't grow on trees. I mean, I heard that like you wanted certain things. Money doesn't grow on trees or do you think I work for the light company turned some of the lights off in here, all those things are. Are you trying to like cool the whole neighborhood with the air conditioning, close the door, close the refrigerator? Yeah, I heard but, um, they always tried to, you know, at least take care of us, and they made us feel even though sometimes some of the things coming out of their mouths were sort of contradictory of of what they were saying, you know. Do you think that them trying you you kind of living in this world where you you felt rich, maybe informed you about the possibility of of being successful, that that that was within your grasp? Yeah, well, yes, and the thing is, so for me as a person of color growing up uh in Louisiana was different because it's the deep South, right? And there's lots of racism there. And so, um, you know, we lived in segregated neighborhoods and I lived in a neighborhood, quite frankly, that was kind of like the black Leave It to Beaver neighborhood or the black Brady Bunch neighborhood where there were you know lawns and sprinklers and that kind of thing and you know two car garages and all so, um, you know, for me, it was quite, it was different because once I, once I left my sort of bubble of living in an all black neighborhood, which I didn't realize was segregated. I just thought, you know, blacks lived here, whites up there or whatever. I was just young. Uh, and then I went toLSU and I realized that I went to high school, rather, I got out of private school and I went to high school and I realized that, hey, you know, things are different different between you know sort of black wealth and white wealth and middle class and upper middle class and all that. But I grew up in the neighborhood thinking where folks who taught me that, hey, you're so I was used to sort of black excellence. And then you know then I started going to public school and people were like, Oh, you're pretty smart for a black guy. And I'm like, What? And they were like, Oh, your parents do pretty well for the black people. And I'm like, What? And so um and then from there I've got my initiation into the real world. Got you. So did you kind of rebel against those remarks? I mean, what would you say to people when they sort of compared you to that black wealth versus white wealth? At first it was like kind of surprising to me because I, as I told you where I grew up in this sort of League of the Beaver where all of the black families really the professors at Southern University, which was an historically black college, um, a university in uh in Louisiana. So, um, I, you know, I was used to it and I just I I like looked at them or thought like, are you guys nuts? Did you not know this?And so after a while, I did not have to, um, you know, say anything to them. I just sort of was myself and made them get used to me. Um, and you know, there were others like me, but I, you know, the, the high school I went to, I went to private school, Catholic school until I got to high school and I was tired of going to a Catholic school. And so I went to a public high school that had just been desegregated like maybe a decade before I there was lots of learning curves for everyone and this was the 80s and it had just been desegregated like in the early 70s, know, it was pretty, it was weird to hear it, but then times were different then.I don't know how old you guys are. You're a lot younger than me, so you probably didn't have to deal with anything like that. So I have a little bit, just a little bit. So if you're just joining us, this is not so fabulously, the show where we keep it authentic, entertaining, and a little fabulous while we talk about money. We're Emmy Award winning journalist Don Lemon about some of his personal money stories. And if you're watching on YouTube, drop a comment below and maybe share what your experience like was as a child growing up in your household. Did your parents talk about money? And what, how did they talk about money? So, Don, I'm going to continue this idea of the way back machine. You talked, I'm sorry, you started your career in Birmingham and then moved to there's a question that I really would like to have answered. I, I think there's this, everyone has this perception that everyone on TV is like rolling in the dough. Can you give us a perspective of what it was like in those early years? What was your earning power like? I mean, to be honest, John and I live in a veryAverage neighborhood, and the woman two doors up from us is on TV in the mornings. And so I think it's kind of we we kind of have that perception, oh, you're on TV, you're you're rolling in it. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, not necessarily now, you know, what's happening with media. But let me just take you back. You said in Birmingham, that was my first full-time on camera job. I started in television in New York City, working for hour, which was below the poverty level in New York City. And it was, um, this is back in the early 90s and um I started as a trainee in the newsroom, basically answering phones, opening mail and you know, going to get dry cleaning or um or lunch for the loading dock for the higher ups. And so uh and it was only a six month thing. And so I lived in the in the Queens in someone's back room, and my parents had to help me pay the rent even then. So you don't make a lot of money when you're starting out. And um and then eventually my full time, the first full time on camera job I got was, um, I did OK, but it was meager. I lived in a studio apartment in Birmingham, Alabama, and then just sort of worked my way up. But when you're in those lean years when you're starting, you really make no then once you get to, you know, maybe to be an anchor in the local markets, they do very well. And then you do, you know, you get to a network where you start to make more money. But it's not, there's a difference between, as you guys know, being rich and being wealthy, right? Being able to afford to pay your bills and having a little bit extra, you know, some people would call that you know upper middle class or some folks would call that rich. But I don't, very few people become in these in these television jobs until you get to a certain level where the air is really rarefied, you don't really make that much money in media on television. Yeah, yeah, I looked at it that's why a lot of men, that's why I'm sorry to cut you guys off. That's why a lot of especially heterosexual men who believe that they have to take care of the entire family. A lot of them don't go into this business. There are a lot of gay men in the in the business and uh and it's it's sort of saturated or populated with sadly, unfortunately, because of how women have been treated in society, but also because, you know, people look at men traditionally in America as the breadwinners and you don't make a lot of money. It's hard to afford to be able to take care of a family, you know, children and all that when you're in, in going through the ranks in television. Yeah, that's. Yeah, I looked up a statistic earlier before the show. I think that the average uh nationwide for a news anchor is 45, the in local markets and that is below the, the median income for the people in the United States, right? So it's not this lucrative job that all of us think. Although you did have some great opportunities, right? You ended up going on to NBC and CNN having those kind of milestones in your career. Were there any financial moves that made doing that easier? Um, learning to live within your means, um, and I, look, I think I came through, you know, I was lucky my timing was good because it each job I went to, I got, I, you know, I, I made more money. And so, and you have contracts, so you know how much money you're going to make. You know the minimum amount of money you're going to make. So you figure out, you get a budget and you figure out like, OK, I can say this amount of then still afford to live. But I have to be honest, until I got to really to CNN, I did not have a financial advisor or anyone like that. And once I got to CNN, I started to make somewhat some real money. Then I got a financial advisor and I started to but mostly not just like put it in the bank, but actually have real investments. And that's when you know you realize, oh, this is how people acquire accumulate wealth. This is how people get to be take themselves out of poverty. Yeah, so Americans in general struggle with lifestyle creep as our incomes grows, typically our lifestyle grows as well. And from the folks that we've worked with and and interviewed for our podcasts over the years, gay men struggle with that, especially, um, trying to prove that, you know, we were worthy despite how we were maybe treated in high school in grade school. How did you avoid that lifestyle creep and get into the mode like, all right, I'm now earning more money, I'm gonna start budgeting and investing. Oh God, I don't know if I ever got over it, but um, look, I started to, I, the thing was is that I never really had to worry because again, I was lucky and I knew how much money I was making and so my, my salary always afforded me, for the most part, afforded me the opportunity to be able to live a certain lifestyle. But um I think it's just so it's just living within your means. So, so when I worked in local, I didn't go out and buy a million dollars apartment or a million dollars home.I bought the type of home, the type of property that suited my income. And um again, the timing was different for me because people coming up now, younger people coming up, they don't get to invest in homes and property and real estate the way that we did because it's so expensive now, right? It used to be like 3 times your salary that you could, whatever the average home and now it's like 6 times your salary or something like that. I didn't reallyhave to deal with that. It was, it was always frightening to me. The first time I bought a home, I was like, I had to put out that much money. How am I going to pay this mortgage? Um, and right? And but most of it for most Americans, the biggest wealth that they accumulate is through their homes, right? Through home ownership. So that concerns me about the folks coming up now because you really can't do that. I've been lucky. So now, let's just say that everything falls apart.I can always sell. I this is my home apart my home. I can always sell this apartment and live for quite a I've only been able, the only reason that I can do that is because over time I've been able to take one home and trade up to another and trade up to another and trade up to another. And so sometimes the homes that I was able to buy or live in may have been and may have been, um, how do I say this, above the salary range, but because I was able to get in that home ownership at a, you know, at at the bottom level, I was able to take that big put it into the down payment, which made my monthlies on being able to afford a mortgage cheaper. So let's just say I'm just making up a number, that it was a $200,000 you know, maybe my salary allowed me to for a $90,000 home. I could live in a $200,000 home only because I was lucky in real estate, which is how where most people have their income and their assets. I was lucky to get in at a time where it was affordable for people and then all of a sudden real estate values I don't know, I don't know what happens now. I don't know how people afford to live now and to buy homes. It's crazy. Yeah, it's definitely challenging, but so, but thank you for sharing that strategy. Yeah, just a couple of points. So the reason why I did the between you and me uh thing to John was, I remember when we wrote the check for the down payment on our very first home, I was like, it was $11,000 and I said that is the largest check I've ever written in my life. And today people spend that kind of money on vacations, right? Um, but I alsoI also appreciate you're talking about this kind of moving scaling things up because I think a lot of people think, well, that I have to buy my forever home with my as my very first home, and sometimes I think that mentality prevents people from actually getting into the market. No, right, and look, also I'm lucky too. My husband is a real estate agent, so, you know, he knows the deals and he's like, this is a time that we should buy and this is a great place to buy because in this area, the homes are gonna go up. So I've been very um lucky uh to do that. But again,Yeah, the first, I think I forget what my first down payment was for my home and I was scared. I was like, all of that money was just draining out of my bank account and I'm like, What if this happens? What if this happens? And I mean, I was counting like the the to the penny, right? And how much but you've got to take that plunge because if you don't, you know, then you don't get to afford a home. But also, you guys know things are changing now. People feel like they don't have to buy homes. We live in a shared a lot of people are renting and there are some financial advisors that'll tell you, um, it's better to rent than to buy at certain moments, you know, in with the economy. 100%. Please hold that thought down. We'll be right back after this quick back to Living Not So Fabulously. We're sitting here with journalist Don Lemon. So Don, we're gonna pivot just a little bit here. What motivated you to launch the Don Lemon show and how did you approach that from a financial planning perspective to take that kind of a gigantic, you know, career lead? Well, one CNN gave me the I had been wanting to, I've been wanting to start my own thing for a while, and I, I had been seeing the way media was going and I, um, again, I've been lucky enough to be in media for a while and to be able to accumulate some um wealth, butOwning a business and starting a business is really, really expensive. There are a lot there's lots of overhead overhead. I've never had employees before. You got to pay salaries, you got to pay health insurance, you have to, you know, pay studio costs and all kinds of things. So, um,Uh, I was able to, to be, I was fortunate enough to be able to have my own seed money, and not everyone can do that. So again, I understand that I am, I have a privilege in a certain way that I can do that. But, um, so I realized it's like, you know what, I can either just sit and not work for a while or possibly forever, to be honest. And I said, you know, I don't want to do that. And so now I've invested um money into the business andUh, when you start, you make a lot of mistakes. I think I spent way too much money in the beginning on doing things that I didn't necessarily need, but you see, you live and you and that's, and that's what happens in business. So you learn to I've learned to scale the business, um, to the, you know, to a place where it is, uh, affordable, practical, and profitable, and that takes a while. So that was, I had been wanting to start my own thing for a while, but I didn't know quite how to do it. But you know, leaving CNN was the the sort of the push that I needed to to to get me to to do it. So sometimes, you know, what seems like a mistake or a failure or whatever however you want to define it, is is your biggest opportunity. Yeah, look, I, I don't say, look, it depends on a mistake or a failure or whatever, but, um, I look at everything as an opportunity. Um, sometimes you're just, you know, God or the universe will say you need to move on. This is not, you don't need to be here. They just kick you out and, and then you figure, you figure out what to do. But I think people can either get stuck in, you know, and become bitter or mad and say, oh my gosh, how dare them do they do this to me or you can say, you know what?Now what do I do with this opportunity that I'm presented with? And um that's what I did. And I chose, especially the election was also a major motivator for me because I wanted to have a voice and impact in the election. And um so on and I said, even if I just get to do that until after the election, then I'm totally fine with that. And so it just so happens that I did it during the people started tuning in and they're like, oh my God, your man on the street stuff is great. I watch your YouTube show, the memberships and the um and the subscribers subscriptions like grew, and I'm like, oh well, this is happening, this is better than I thought. But here's the catch, if you're doing this independent media thing, which a lot of folks will have to is that, um, you, you need sponsors and advertisers to stay afloat. And they, many advertisers do not like to advertise around politics and news because it's they feel it's not brand fake. I think it's crazy. You got to take a stand, as we were talking about with businesses, etc. corporations as it as it relates to Pride Month and all of that. But eventually, um, you know, I became too big for advertisers and sponsors to ignore, and so now they, they're signing on and, you know, so we're getting sponsors and advertisers, so you just have to keep on yeah, so I, this is an opportunity for me. I love that June is Pride Month. It's also World ride in DC this month. Um, so what would you give uh when you look at the LGBT community, especially with what we're going through right now, what would you give as one piece of financial advice that you would think everyone should, should, uh, should try to do?Whether it's personal or business. So and you're talking about specifically for members of the LGBTQ plus community, to the gays, um, look, I would say, um, just very simple advice, save some money, put some money away, invest in your money, don't invest in in in the market if you can, um, andDon't try to keep up with the Joneses. We always try to keep up with the Joneses, and everybody's out there, they're buying, and they're fabulous, and they're doing. They love luxury and all of I am not one thing that has saved me is that I don't really care about luxury. I don't care about brands. I love, of course, do I love to look at a beautiful Louis Vuitton bag and all of that? Do I love Ames, um, you know, do I love, um, all right, uh-huh, I love all of that. I love it, you know what I love more than that? I love opening up my phone and going, oh, look at my bank account, I don't have to have a name brand or a label on my back and I don't have to go out and drink or stay at the same hotels as you or make sure that I have an Uber. I ride the subway, I'll jump on a taxi, I'll get on a city bike. And so I would just say, just, you know, don't worry. People who actually have money don't do those things.I would say just save your money. Do not try to keep up with the Joneses. If other people, if they don't like what you're wearing, they don't have to wear it. If other people don't like your little one bedroom apartment, a studio apartment. There be jealous of my bank account and don't worry about. I did not have fashion tips on my bingo card from. But invest in your home. Invest in your home, invest in your business, invest in yourself. Don't invest in things, just things because don't like, oh, I have to have a people, I have to have a beautiful crossbody designer bag. I don't, I don't really care. Oh nice, nice, thank you for joining us. Did that answer your question really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for joining us today. We really appreciate it. You guys are great. I love you, thank you. Definitely. If you like what you see, scan the QR code and follow Yahoo Finance podcast for more videos and expert insights because when you do, you feel a little bit more financially empowered too. And until next time, stay fabulous. This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.
Yahoo
3 days ago
- Business
- Yahoo
Don Lemon on leaving TV and betting big on himself
Money, success, and starting over. From growing up in a segregated neighborhood in Baton Rouge to earning $5 an hour in his first media job, Emmy Award-winning journalist Don Lemon shares how his earliest financial lessons shaped his views on wealth, self-worth, and ambition. Don opens up to David and John Auten-Schneider about the myth of media money, the reality of lifestyle creep, and how homeownership became his greatest wealth-building tool. Don also gets candid about the financial risks of entrepreneurship post-CNN, and what he learned from spending too much too fast. For full episodes of Living Not So Fabulously, listen on your favorite podcast platform or watch on our website. Yahoo Finance's Living Not So Fabulously is produced by Dennis Golin.
Yahoo
13-06-2025
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
‘Severence' actor Jen Tullock describes the financial constraints that come with Hollywood fame
Listen and subscribe to Living Not So Fabulously on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. The glitz and glamour of Hollywood make it seem like TV and movie actors lead lives of luxury behind the scenes. But as the writers and actors strikes have shown, there's a lot more financial struggle than one might think. 'Financial restraints have shaped every aspect of my life,' actor Jen Tullock explained on Yahoo Finance's Living Not So Fabulously (see video above or listen below). This embedded content is not available in your region. Tullock, who is known for her roles as Devon on Apple TV's 'Severance' and Anita St. Pierre in the HBO series 'Perry Mason,' revealed that even when the work is consistent, there are plenty of out-of-pocket expenses associated with maintaining a presence in Hollywood that dig into those large paychecks. 'You could be making more money — which is great — but you're paying lawyers, managers, agents, publicists, sometimes stylists out of pocket,' she explained. 'Those things sound elective or by choice, but they're not always. Those are all things that you need to keep the train going. So it's like the more you make, the more you have to make to keep it up.' Read more: 7 ways to save money on a tight budget She admitted that on more than one occasion, she ran out of money on the path to success. 'The greatest shame I've ever experienced in my life has been around money,' she admitted. 'I did run out of money. I did sleep in my car a couple times, and I did not have any resources.' Tullock also noted that despite being part of the Screen Actors Guild (SAG), her health insurance is tied to her quarterly earnings as an actor, meaning she could lose coverage if she's not healthy enough to continue working. 'I'll speak for only for myself,' she said, 'but you could be in a situation where you're on a successful show and maybe you've just shot a string of successful things — a big studio movie, and a couple of shows — but then if you have a hiatus where you're not shooting, ... you could be on the highest-grossing show in the country and still lose your health insurance because you didn't technically have enough coming in for that quarter to maintain it.' Tullock said that similar 'worst-case scenario' moments made her realize how important resources like therapy can be for finding stability in her relationship with money. "It took me years to get to the point where, in a moment of financial tumult, I didn't go into total ... fight or flight," Tullock said. Every Wednesday, dive into real money stories from the LGBTQ community with podcast hosts David and John Auten-Schneider. You can find more episodes on our video hub or watch on your preferred streaming service. Sign up for the Mind Your Money newsletter Error in retrieving data Sign in to access your portfolio Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data
Yahoo
11-06-2025
- Business
- Yahoo
The hidden financial risk when sponsors pull out
Dive into the dollars, decisions, and deeper meaning behind World Pride DC 2025 with Ryan Bos, executive director of Capital Pride Alliance. From glitter-filled celebrations to seven-figure budgets, we'll break down what it really takes to organize one of the largest LGBTQ+ events in the world. Through the lens of Pride, protest, and personal finance, this episode of Living Not So Fabulously blends activism with accountability, reminding us that visibility is powerful, but budgeting for that visibility also matters. Ryan Bos also offers real world advice for queer professionals trying to build wealth and stability while staying true to their values For full episodes of Living Not So Fabulously, listen on your favorite podcast platform or watch on our website. Yahoo Finance's Living Not So Fabulously is produced by Dennis Golin.
Yahoo
05-06-2025
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
Severance's Jen Tullock on overcoming financial trauma and shame
In this candid and emotional interview, actor and writer Jen Tullock opens up about the deeply personal intersections of financial trauma, queerness, and healing. Jen tells hosts David & John Auten-Schneider how growing up in an emotional and cultural chaos environment shaped her early relationship with money. Tullock reveals how she hit financial rock bottom - but also gives great insight, emphasizing the importance of therapy for separating self-worth from economic status. With vulnerability, humor, and heart, Jen Tullock offers a story that many in the queer community will recognize - and celebrates thriving with your real, authentic full episodes of Living Not So Fabulously, listen on your favorite podcast platform or watch on our website. Yahoo Finance's Living Not So Fabulously is produced by Dennis Golin. My value is linked to the money I do or don't have. In this interview, pay particular attention to our discussion around healthcare in the movie and TV industries, and the hamster wheel that everyone seems to be on. I'll say it'll shock you. Yeah, I agree, it shocked us, and it begs the question why we make it so hard for actors and musicians trying to get their big break, AKA startup hearing that term here first, and I'm publicly givingnullo the copyright privileges to to living not so fabulously. So David, be honest, if you had the option to sever your professional self from your personal self, would you doit? no, absolutely not. That would mean forgetting you. And let's be real, I forget enough of what you tell me on a dailybasis. How rude is that? But fair. Besides, who wants to separate their professional self from the work self and not share the best parts of themselves with their favoriteperson? Exactly. And speaking of brilliant people who blur all the boundaries in all the best ways, Jen Tulloch is a Kentucky and all-round scene stealer, best known as Devon in Severance on Apple TV, and Anita Saint Pierre on HBO's Perry Mason. She's a Sundance alum, a stroke survivor, and a proud lesbian who once said her goal in life was to be a character actress who gets fan mail from librarians. So she's our kind of people, to the show, Jen. Thanks y'all. I'm so happy to be with you. Thank you. Yeah, so you portrayed queer actors on several shows including Severance and uh as as Anita uh Saint Pierre on Perry Mason. How do you infuse your personal experience as a queer person into roles like that? Those two were were certainly different beasts to take on with Severance, um, my character is married to a man, but our show creator Dan Erickson and I had always discussed the fact that she had probably had a pretty splashy time in her twenties and dated people of all genders, and I always joked that I think she probably played rugby at Oberlin and had like a hot rugby girlfriend, you know, named like Tank or and then, and then met, met her husband, fell in love and settled down, but we had talked about before, before the episode or sort of revealed officially that she was queer, that she had been, and I said, you know, something we don't see very often represented, I think, in TV and media at large is uh our queer people in straight relationships. And um I've I've never ventured that way myself. I'm about as gay as a sequined handbag, butI did think it was important for that character to distinguish, whereas with Anita on Perry Mason, that was obviously such a different situation playing someone who's closeted for obvious reasons in 1933 and um having to that that entailed, both story wise and just physically what it looks like to be in a relationship with someone, for which, you know, you could have been jailed. So uh that was really special and and bittersweet to play. Yeah, absolutely. So in severance, if we understand correctly, you sort of impro improvised the line revealing that Devin was a queer character. Dude, I left you like 5 messages. Are you better? No, well, I'm still sick. Well, you can't not pick up when we're doing corporate espionage shit. The floodlight thing was a bust, right, because I have had an idea that is a little dumber. OK, Devin, do you remember the rich lady from baby camp, the one I like kinda hard to crush on? Do you have that kind of autonomy and was was like were the producers and directors all prepared for that coming out? We're pretty biblical with the script on that show, I think because it's so meticulous and focused and intentional, it's not a huge improv heavy set, um, but because of the space, I think that my character and Adam Scott's character, his Audi, uh Occupy on the show, I think we probably have a little bit more wriggle room because they uhThey wanted to feel lived in and fraternal. So that was one of those moments where we were just being cheeky. I, if I remember correctly, it was the end of a long shoot day and it was one of the last takes and I just set it off the cuff. Um, and I was so pleased that they kept it, and I ended up texting Dan and I was like, is this OK? I think I accidentally outed her. And he was like, no, we'd always talked about that, so we were eager to keep it in, but it was funny to see the internet response to it. It was wild. So then that that's really interesting, not surprising, but it's really interesting that, of course, the internet caught on fire when you say like when you outed your character. So, what was, what were some of the things that they were saying and, and what was your reaction? How did you handle that? I, it was,it was twofold for me or or two pronged I should say. One, I was just thrilled that that people, straight and queer, seemed really excited at the prospect. There was a lot of uh there were a lot of responses I saw online that were like, oh this makes so much sense, of course, um, but one thing I did have to contend with and felt like it was my responsibility to contend with, was when people would say fans would say, oh well, that's know, there's a fissure in her her marriage. That's why she's with somebody like Rick and who we don't think is right for her, and I get really defensive of their relationship, both because I trust why they're together as characters and because of my personal love for Michael Turners, the actor who plays Rickon so much. And I had to say, no, it's not because she's actually gay. I think this is a pansexual person who who fell in love with this man and has for whatever to carve out a life with him and um I think that it was important for me to to respond to some of those and say, no, it it's, you know, we, my, uh, there are plenty of people in my life that are queer and have dated and had meaningful relationships with all genders that found themselves in an opposite or, or hetero, you know, normative relationship and felt a little, you know, erased and, and because of that, and I, I, I respect that feeling, so I wanted to make sure people knew it wasn't, oh well, she's gay, and so that's why she's not all over her husband. I think she's just in a boring marriage cause they just had a baby and we ran an interview once and somebody said, why they together, we don't get it, and Michael Turner said, have you ever been to an airport?Like, have you ever, what a marriage actually looks like? And I thought that was so well said. Yes, but I appreciate that you had the courage to throw that in there and that the producers and directors kept it there, because I don't know that straight people can truly understand what it means to get that indication that there's somebody like me in this particular world that I can, I can, I can understand with, and it was done with such authenticity and um not like overblown in any way, shape or form, it was just said in passing and it's more like real life. it should be, you know, I think there was the, the Reddit lore that that came out after that time, uh, I had friends send me a lot, and it was I was tickled reading it and and that you tickled that people cared, but also, um,Uh, making it a big coming out moment to me wasn't the focus, because my, my hope is that in life, that's what we're moving towards, that our, our queerness, our gayness is just 11 aspect of many, you know, about ourselves. And, um, for Devin, that's certainly true. I think that she didn't leave behind women to be with a man. She's a queer person who dated people before Rickon and is now with Rickon. And also,Normalize married people having crushes, you know, I think like it doesn't mean stepping out on your partner. I think that uh it was it was a funny moment for me to be like, yeah, I just met this really cool, you know, uh, gorgeous person at the birthing cabin and woo, uh, it's funny the actress who plays Abby, a person that Devin is the character Devin is talking about in that name is Nora Dale, she's great. And I texted her and I said, listen, sorry to accidentally drag you into this too, but we're in itnow. Yeah, absolutely. So thanks for sharing that. If you're just joining us, we're talking with actor and writer Jen Tullo. So you, you've mentioned that me. You mentioned that fiction is cheaper than therapy. Do you mind elaborating on that? What does that mean exactly? I think like many people that were raised in restrictive religious environments, I was raised uh in an incredibly conservative evangelical community in Kentucky, and I knew early on that I didn't fit there in many ways, um, namely my queerness, but also just being a weirdo, and uh I think that I had alwaysBe acting any way that I can, like I was taking, I, I was, if it meant being on stage at church, yes, I would take it. If it meant finally convincing my parents to let me audition for a community theater uh production of Fiddler on the Roof in Southern Indiana, I took it. And let me tell you, I dazzled, I dazzled in the ensemble, but I, I think there'sI'll, I'll tell you what it is. When I was young and and saw Funny Girl for the first time, which is the story of, I think so many actress, um.I thought, that looks closer to the outline of how I see myself, and my grandparents, my beloved grandparents did a wonderful job of introducing me to old jazz, like they played Bill Evans for me and I can Cole and EiddoJ and Betty Carter and uh showed me all the old MGM musicals, and I remember thinking I felt suchRespite and comfort when I was living inside of those musicals that I wanted a life that kept me in close proximity to those stories and that genre that felt like my friend. I was like, I just want to be with my friends. And these old movies were my friends. And so I, I think I wasI knew early on that I wanted to be in show business and umI guess to answer your question more pointedly, when you're having to channel intense feelings as a character, I find it easier to grab when you have the mask of a character than it is for me in my waking life, where I, I think there, I probably have some more restrictions I've put on myself emotionally. So the irony of, um,You know, having to live a truthful moment that is make-believe is not lost on me, and probably my therapist either. Gotcha. Thank you. I, I really appreciate you sharing that. Um, I, I, I, for two reasons. One, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, so I know exactly where you're coming from in that kind of being raised in that kind of household, and the idea that fiction is something that you would I I gravitated towards, um, literally whenever my parents would go out of out of town when I was a teenager.I had set aside money so that I could go to the video store and rent queer themed videos that I could only watch when they were out of town. And so I, that was kind of my therapy during that time period, you know, we're talking about my my later teens, and so I completely understand that. It it kind of speaks to this idea that sometimes we do need to, as queer some of the aspects of our lives and some of that sometimes is financial. Have, have there ever been any financial constraints that have shaped your creative endeavors? Oh my God. Financial restraints have have shaped every aspect of my life. I think being raised in a conservative Christian environment meant that scarcity was often mythologized and ultimately weaponized because it was part of a system that posited that you had no control of your predestined life. And so any moment of abundance or scarcity was divinely appointed. And so if it was abundance, well, you must have done something right. And if it was scarcity, well, you must have not done something right. AndThatThat honestly colored my relationship with money. It still does, uh, for a long time in a really detrimental way. I, I think, um, I was raised in an environment where there wasn't money in the money, that there was was often, um,Uh, mismanaged and, and by no fault of my parents, they were very young when they had me, um, and.I thinkI realized early on that this is also very Southern. My, my, my mother's from Arkansas. My dad's from North Carolina, and I was brought up in Kentucky, and the mythologizing scarcity is very Southern. It's very Tennessee Williams to me. It's like, well, we can't do that. Well, we can't, we don't have the money to do that. And it would be, you know, there would be moments where I would say, oh, I, you know, I need, I think a new pair of shoes for school, like my shoes are falling apart, and you'd be like, what do you think this is?You know, but, you know, we don't have that money, and they were doing. My parents were doing their best. Like I, they were struggling and, and, uh, but, but I remember thinking at that time, oh, my value is linked to the money I do or don't have, and I think there are certainly ways to live a life with not very much money and not feel that way, but I think it was baked into the culture, especially as a in the church, it was like, well, the Lord will grant you what you need, and if you are not granted that, then maybe that's something to examine, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, sort of weaponized in a way. So I'm, I'm curious with all the anti-LGBTQ plus initiatives today, thinking about your backstory, do you think a young gen Tullock from KentuckyStill feels hopeful today? I think I have I, I, my head will pop off my body and roll across the floor like a bowling ball. It's a terrifying time in this country. It's certainly terrifying in other parts of the queer people, um, I think especially like our trans siblings right now, um, that keeps me up at night, but I, you know, I have a 10 year old stepson andAs cliched as it is, it's true. I haveMy relationship with him has altered the way I think about I, I look at him and the freedom with which he lives his life and the friends of his that are gender expansive, um, and so very much themselves and so situated comfortably in themselves in a way that I didn't have access to at that age. And I think, well, they, if they're doing it now, we're going to be OK. And, um,Yeah, but it's scary. It's, it's, it's scary, and you know, I think for those of us that are lucky enough to live in communities that feel safe for queer folks, it's also been a great wake up call to remember thatUh, just because your state is blue doesn't mean there isn't bigotry, and I've, I've experienced since this current president has been back in office, um, a, energy shift and moments where I thought, oh, this person that lives in my very progressive New York community feels deputized now to say questionable about queer people that they wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah, it's an interesting word deputized. It's a very poignant. Yeah, it definitely is. Speaking of another scary experience in your life, um, you went through having a stroke, and you have a solo show about this. You talk about it in your show, you shall not, I'm sorry, you shall inherit the earth, did this health event affect your financial planning or perspective? I think it affected me uh generally in the sense that IAny any semblance of security or safety or implied uh like rights to safety and health went out the window. I think this probably is often the case for people that suffer any type of sudden health event, shook me in a couple of ways, uh, namely that when I didn't know what was gonna happen when I'd got into the hospital and I had expressive aphasia, so I wasn't really able to speak properly, um, and they said, oh, you know, we need to just make sure you don't go to a brain bleed cause that's where things can get really dicey. I thought, oh, right, this isn't, OK, this is happening. And I remember being, I talked about this on my show, but being uh pushed into the MRI machine and I found myself I hadn't prayed in in decades, and I, whether or not it was by rote or, you know, just sort of a trauma response from muscle memory.I don't know, but all I know is that my body did something that my mind did not give consent to. And I remember thinking, I have to look at this. If I, if I make it through this and I'm fine on the other side, which, you know, thankfully I was, I, I need to look at this moment and what that means for me. And, um, but as far as finances are concerned, I don't have to tell you, the American medical system is a the the health insurance system is a gauntlet, it is, it is built to fail. It is a a a classist, capitalist, in my opinion, that does not serve way that uh the way that it could and should. And I was very lucky when I had my stroke that I had good health insurance, um, through my job, and that I was able to get the care that I needed. But I also know, you know, I, I was telling you before, when my wife and I were in France, I had like a little problem with my eye. I had this thing called neurovascularization of your cornea, which means I had like a blood vessel content warning, like growing into my cornea, and it burst and it was bleeding in my I had, I spent hours on the phone when we got back to the states finding someone that took my insurance. But the first doctor I saw said, you have to see a corneal specialist, otherwise you could lose vision in your eye. But I was like, I can't find anyone that takes my insurance and out of pocket, it was going to be astronomical. And I remember thinking, yeah, this is how it happens. There's so many preventable health emergencies in our country because we make it nearly impossible to get care. Absolutely. So please hold that thought. I want to continue this discussion right after this back to Living Not So Fabulously. We're talking with one of the stars of everyone's favorite dystopian sci-fi, Severance Gent continuing the discussion we were having before the break, Chapo Rone recently famously shared that the music, the music industry's inadequacies with covering performers' health insurance. How are the movie and television industries the same or different with health care coverage, especially for startup stars? Yeah, I for one thing startup stars is the most generous description I've ever heard of a fledgling actor. Um, I think that that's incredible. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start referring to myself as a startup star. I think, um, I think when, when we had the SAG and and WGA strikes a couple years ago, uh, which actually started the day before I had my stroke. I always joke that's why I had one, but I, you know, we were, everyone was doing their best during that time to negotiate better with our, with, with my union, and I'm in a couple, I know for actors Equity, for stage actors it functions a little differently, but with SAG, it's commensurate with your, uh, your quarterly income, so you can lose it just as quickly as you, you got it. And I've had friends that had insurance because they had worked enough in that have their insurance, have a health problem. I, I know a a a person I I really like in LA, a gifted comedian was, was diagnosed with cancer and had just lost her insurance, but couldn't work enough to make it back because she was so I know, I know that people in the union are working hard to rectify that and and make it more accessible to people, but it's tough, you know, where we live under capitalism and it's, it's, it's pay or play more often than not. And so I evenThere, I, I think I'll I'll speak for only for myself, but you could be in a situation where you're on a successful show and maybe you've just shot a string of successful things, a big studio movie and a couple of shows, but then if you have a a hiatus where you're not shooting, meaning you're not technically on payroll, you could be on the highest gross grossing show in the country and still lose your Els and res because you didn't technically have enough coming that quarter to maintain it and now with the residual model being what it is, um, you know, now some of that changed uh during the strikes, which is great, and I'm sure someone in the comments is going to correct me from the union, but I may be misquoting it, but well we, you know, we, most of the streaming shows did residuals uh until the strike. So back in the day, you know, TV actors on network shows, you'd be good if you didn't work for a while, you had some residuals coming in that would maintain you and your insurance, an ever changinglandscape. That's so convoluted and way harder than it needs to be. Well, I yeah, I think we, we have this kind of perception of you're, you're on a big show and oh, once you've landed your big gig, your life is like, oh, it's easy now. you just hit the easy button. It's easy in the sense that it's wonderful to be a part of something I feel proud of and it's amazing to have more access to other work that that for me has always been like the biggest but no, none of it goes away, you know, like you can't, uh, for by no one's fault, you know, we, we, we, as, as everyone sort of knows now, it took a, took a while to make these two seasons of severance, and it, again, it was no one's fault. We, we, COVID happened and then the strikes happened. We keep joking but like what's left a hurricane, a tsunami, or an asteroid, um, to keep us, keep us from season 3, but of that, you know, weWe're all scrambling to work elsewhere in between, but then when the strikes happen, we couldn't work at all. And so most of us went back to the stage, which was great, but, uh, not always the most uh lucrative endeavor. And it, it's, it's one of the number one, I think, misconceptions about, um, what I'll call middle class actors, which is working actors, consistently working actors, working on great things, um, but you don' I wish I had been told as a young actor, as a as a startup uh star was um much, what a big percentage of your income goes to other people. You know, you're, uh, you could be making more money, which is great, but you're, you're paying lawyers, managers, agents, publicists, sometimes stylists out of pocket, um, and those things sound, uh, elective or, or, um, by choice, but they're they're not always, like you, those are all things that you need to sort of keep the train uh yeah, so it's like the more, the more you make, the more you have to make to keep it up. Yeah, very insightful. Definitely. So I'm gonna kind of weave two questions here. We usually like to, to get when we get towards the end of the show, ask folks that we're interviewing, what is one piece of personal finance advice that you would give to the LGBT community, but I'm gonna actually weave this in with idea that you're talking about right now is of how do you cope with income fluctuations because we're seeing more and more queer people end up in 1099 roles and roles where they don't have work, yeah, contract work. So do you have any suggestions or what piece of advice would you share with the community? Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me because I think oftentimes when you're in a sort of life where you're having to hide part of yourself, where, you know, I'm 41 and coming out at 19, it still was, um, it, it, it still wasn't a totally safe time to be out, um, in the workplace, you could still certainly be discriminated against or not hired altogether, especially if it were straight men that were making the decisions. And I'd flat out been told that before, early on in my career. not to say I suffered greatly. I've been very lucky in a lot of ways, but um I think because a lot of queer people come from a scarcity place, whether it was because they were kicked out of their home or didn't feel safe in their home, that it is generally harder, I think, for for queer folks to find consistency and to prioritize consistency because we were raised in a in a sort of chaos and in an emotional chaos, a cultural chaos. And so my advice would just beIt it by by any by hook or crook, if you can get into therapy for me healing, the first part of that experience is imperative to developing a healthy relationship with money, even if you don't have any. It took me years to get to the point where in a moment of financial tumult, I didn't go into total adrenal overdrive, where I was in my amygdala, where I was in like fight or flight. Um, I, the greatest shame I've ever experienced in my life has been around the greatest terror and has been aboutBecause the worst case scenario did happen to me a couple times when I was younger. I did run out of money. I did sleep in my car a couple times and like I did not have any resources, and thenAt points in my life, I was lucky enough to have folks that helped me, um, and eventually was able to work enough to survive and and thrive, but I would just say,It sounds impossible, but if you can find the mental health resources to try and separate the shame from the money you do or don't have, it's really, to me, very important. That is great advice. Thank you so much for sharing that and thank you so much for coming on the show, Jen. It's been a thrill having you. Thank you for having me. It's lovely to talk to you. So I love that interview. Jen is so super insightful. So what was your takeaway? So I think that Jen's take on how religion shapes our money beliefs is really powerful. If those beliefs are hurting more than they're helping, it may be time toSever them, or at least realign them with support from a therapist or even a financial therapist. I mean, did you know that many of our money habits are actually formed by the time we're age 7, oftentimes shaped by our family, our faith, or even fear. Yeah, it's quite surprising. So, did you also know that there are certifications for financial therapy? If money stress runs deep for you, this might be the help that you need. For even deeper healing, check out the chum of money Financial Therapy Association or the Chama Money Institute for more information. Thanks for tuning in. Like what you see, scan the QR code and follow Yahoo Finance podcast for more videos and expert insights, because when you do, you get all of the financial insight with none of the creepy break room vibes. And until next time, stay fabulous. This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services. Error in retrieving data Sign in to access your portfolio Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data
