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Yahoo
2 hours ago
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
How Seth Meyers is still laughing after 11 years: ‘We've taken advantage of bad things'
It's been 11 years since Seth Meyers took over as host of Late Night, and yet he's showing no signs of slowing down. "I can't believe I'm still doing this, but there's literally nothing else I'd rather be doing," he tells Gold Derby. More from GoldDerby 5 slots isn't enough: More limited series deserve a chance to compete with 'Adolescence' Laugh tracks: The state of the 2025 Emmy comedy race Close calls: The state of the 2025 Emmy drama race Of course, he's found more than a few other things to keep himself busier than ever, including a standup special, HBO's Dad Man Walking, two podcasts The Lonely Island and Seth Meyers and Family Trips With the Meyers Brothers, and a stand-up tour with John Oliver, among others. Not to mention filming his YouTube segments "A Closer Look," "Day Drinking," and "Corrections." Here, the SNL alum opens up about turning bad news into good comedy, getting a nickname from President Donald Trump, and the end of the late night wars. Gold Derby: So let's talk about . It's been 11 years — that's quite an accomplishment. How do you keep it fresh? Seth Meyers: One, we react to the news as it happens. And so ultimately, it feels almost like you're doing an improv show every day where you don't know what you're going to talk about until you get to work. And the other way we keep it fresh is we've just taken advantage of bad things to have a creative renaissance. We went through a pandemic, and if there was any silver lining, it's that we let our show change based on our time away. And one of the ways it changed it is you got a little bit more casual. I think we embrace the fact that we are the second late-night show on NBC, and we gave ourselves permission to act that way, and that was all sort of born out of the pandemic. How much can you respond to the news in real time? We give ourselves as much freedom as we can, but we never want to get caught responding to something too close to tape time if it doesn't allow us time to fully process our take. We don't want to mention something just to get points for having mentioned it. I think a lot of our audience watches us every day, and they have an understanding that if we don't get to a big story, it probably means we'll get to it tomorrow. Now, of course, the price of that is we are living in a time where sometimes the craziest thing to happen on Monday seems tame compared to the crazy thing that happens on Tuesday. We have no shortage of material, and that is both good and bad. You just booked George Clooney for the first time. Has he been on your wish list for a while? He has. It was really cool to see him on Broadway in Good Night, and Good Luck. In this day and age, you really do take note when you are blown away by seeing someone on stage. And this has been a very cool Broadway season for that. I was lucky enough to see Denzel [Washington] as well. That first time you see people you have seen on the screen your whole life and then actually see them physically perform, there's nothing quite like it. You just never regret going to see a Broadway show. So let's talk about "A Closer Look." Where did that segment come from? Very organically. I wrote a longer form thing, maybe in our first or second year, about the Greek debt crisis. And then I think we did one about Planned Parenthood maybe a month later, and we had no idea that we were building what would be the linchpin of our show. It's a really exciting piece to do. It's being written as close to real time as possible. And oftentimes we're talking about things that are upsetting. We have creative space where we taken silly tangents and do half-baked impressions. And we have callbacks to bits we did months ago, and it has become a very fertile place, both for information and for us. How much does that have to do with who's in the White House? A massive amount, I would say. The speed at which we are having to rush to add or even rush to tear up something that no longer is relevant based on the 180-degree turn that was just taken at a press conference, a hastily assembled signing ceremony. So whatever complaints anybody out there has about President Biden, I really, truly believe after 4:00, literally no news broke over the course of his entire administration. And that was very nice, at least for the people who write our cue cards. You got your own nickname, "Marble Mouth Meyers." Was that a badge of honor? I wouldn't say a badge of honor. I want to be fair — I think the guy has come up with some pretty good nicknames. I think "Marble Mouth Meyers" is maybe not his best. I challenge anybody to go back and listen to this interview in which I am talking faster than most people and I don't think I've stumbled once. It is a weird thing for him to have drilled down on. But you know, as far as my complaints about the man, that one is pretty low down the list. Given the political climate that we're in now, where networks are paying attention to what he's doing and vice versa, it feels like there's definitely a close conversation happening with the administration. Look, I think it's hard for networks right now. I would not want to be in the seat of anyone who's in charge of trying to run one of these things while you have an incredibly petty person who has the levers of power. So I don't want to say that I think it's easy to be in charge at a time like this, but I also want to give credit where credit's due and say that certainly the people that are in charge of our network have not given any extra edicts from on high as far as how they expect us to perform. So you never pull your punches. We don't pull our punches. And we also have no expectation that the audience we have spent so much time building up would have any interest in sticking around and watching our show if we started to. It feels like there's a lot of camaraderie in late night right now. It's lovely, especially as we go through these tumultuous times. We always had a great amount of affection and respect for one another. Strike Force Five, which was our writers' strike podcast, it was an incredible, like the long tail of that is how closer we are with one another. And it's really a cool thing to have. It's cool to see you as a guest on those shows, too. I've been lucky to have a long friendship with Jimmy Fallon and to be a guest on his show. To finally get to do [Stephen] Colbert and [Jimmy] Kimmel is so much fun, and if John Oliver had the courage to have guests on, I would love to do his show as well, but you know, he's chosen another path. And I do hope one day he finds success. The only thing I will say is, as a huge fan of the Bill Carter books, I do want to apologize to people who like the drama and the feuds. And I apologize for the fact that ultimately we are giving you a more boring era of late night in regards to squabbles. But I can only tell you it is very nice for us. While the formats for our shows in a wide shot look similar, any one of us can tell you how different they are from one another. And it's very rare that I feel as though we are stepping on each other's toes in regards to material or approach. What are the challenges you face as a late-night host these days? The challenge that I task myself with doing every day is writing a show. I think that there are obviously challenges in linear television and there are challenges in regards to things like advertising. But ultimately, I'm not the one who educated myself on how to solve those things. I'm very lucky to work in a network that has very smart people who are in charge of things like that, and so I just am going to write the show every day. And the challenge in that is the challenge that's always been there, which is you want to write to the height of your intelligence. You want to write quickly and you want to be able to, when the time comes, perform it with enthusiasm that makes it interesting to watch. So how much pressure do you feel to come up with new segments like "Corrections" or "Day Drinking"? All of our writers know that it's an open floor anytime they want to bring a new idea — you never know which one's going to be a hit, which one you're going to want to do again. But the fun part is trying and everything that has ever worked on our show has been born out of an authentic place. If it's "Jokes Seth Can't Tell," realizing they were writing jokes where their identity as the writer of the jokes was working against me being the guy who told those punchlines. So it's never that we sit down and say, what's the next big thing? It's more than somebody has a little idea that's based in truth, and then it gets its own momentum going. Where did "Corrections" then come from? "Corrections" came from the fact that people online who write comments in the YouTube section ultimately had a big problem with the fact that I said "Legos" instead of "Lego bricks." And so then I stepped out of the show once and recorded a short YouTube video where I tried to address this and then it became this snowball rolling downhill. And now every Thursday, I read every YouTube comment and we recorded a video called "Corrections," where I address all the mistakes I have been told by our viewers. The viewers who comment are known as jackals, and so I address the jackals and their impossible to please demeanors. And have you gotten corrections to your "Corrections"? Oh, yeah. Basically "Corrections" is a snake eating its own tail, which I can tell you is called ouroboros, which I learned from someone in the comment section. But it's certainly taking on a life of its own. It's not a giant number, but for the people who watch it every week, I think that they now feel very inside on the lore of the show and the characters who put it together. And so it's a very nice little community that we built, and in this day and age community is a pretty special thing. But it's also you being self-referential. I think that's what people are really responding to. The fun thing is I'm pretending to be insulted by their corrections, and they are pretending to be angry at my mistakes. But we all are aware that we're just kind of doing the show for one another. It's funny how special a thing it has become and how it makes me feel connected to our audience, which is a thing that I really didn't fully understand until the pandemic happened, and I was alone in a room doing a show into a screen, and then I realized, oh, most people are at home, many alone, watching this show on a screen. And so that closeness, which I only sort of fully appreciated then, is something that we tried really hard to keep, even now that we're back in the studio with a full audience. What's next for you? What's the one thing you haven't done that you want to conquer? I just want to get a good night's sleep. I feel really lucky. And it's an incredible luxury to have a show, especially in times like these where I feel like if I didn't have a show, I'd just be sort of muttering to myself as I walked up and down the street. So mostly I just want to hold on to what I have and appreciate that. I'm very happy that I come to work every day knowing how good I have it. It won't be a thing where I'll look back and say, oh, why wasn't I happier when I had my show? This was the happiest I think I've ever been. Best of GoldDerby Jay Duplass on exposing his 'dad bod' and playing a 'soft villain' in 'Dying for Sex': 'Easily one of my biggest acting challenges' Jon Hamm on 'Your Friends and Neighbors': 'None of us are perfect specimens' 'I'm very happy to be busy': O-T Fagbenle on his trio of Emmy-eligible performances Click here to read the full article.
Yahoo
2 days ago
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
‘Be open to the moment you never expected': How ‘Road Diary' captured Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in full force
Road Diary: Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band is a melancholic blast. In the hands of longtime Bruce Springsteen collaborator, director, and editor Thom Zimny, the many compelling, sometimes contrasting shades of the Boss are on full display in the Hulu documentary — the artist and the showman, the poet and the ham, and above all, a lively force grappling with death and the passage of time. Road Diary follows Springsteen and the E Street Band both in the studio and on tour, bringing people together after the pandemic. More from GoldDerby Tom Cruise finally gets his (honorary) Oscar moment: Here's his complete awards history Alan Cumming would be the 4th person to repeat in Best Reality Host: See fresh Emmy odds Dolly Parton adds honorary Oscar to her trophy shelf: A look back at her legendary awards history Zimny wanted the story of Springsteen and the band's return to the road — after a six-year break — to unfold naturally. 'I did not come in with a preconceived pitch of 'this documentary will reflect the world,'' Zimny told Gold Derby. 'I took my cues from watching Bruce. In those rehearsals, I saw him craft a setlist that dealt with looking at life and the past and loss and the present moment, being alive in the present moment as much as you can. The show itself was a guiding force in the edit.' Capturing the scope of any Springsteen and E Street Band show is a tall order. As Springsteen says in the film's opening, he wanted to throw the biggest party he could with this tour. But in under 100 minutes, how does a filmmaker capture all the intense emotions that flow during the Boss' legendary three-hour shows? 'When I'm looking at how to bottle this experience and put it forth in a film,' Zimny said, 'I try to focus on my own personal memories, taking cues from the faces in the crowd and the connection they're having. And with Road Diary, I wanted to make it an emotional film and film it in a way that captured transitions in people's eyes, transitions while they're listening to the music.' The film also captures Springsteen's evolution from perfectionist to an artist embracing beautiful mistakes. Let the song live how it lives, basically. 'What he said in the documentary, in the spontaneous moment to the band, was that you want to be able to fuck up during the course of the night because it's live,' Zimny said. 'That's what the people are paying for. In that, I find the philosophy that I've held onto in making films with Bruce: come fully prepared, but be open to the moment you never expected.' For Zimny, his own perfectionism kicks in during post-production, specifically in the sound department. Communicating the thundering sound of a Springsteen show is a delicate process. 'Capturing that quality in the mix was an obsession,' Zimny said. 'You feel the bass in your heart and the drums in your stomach, like you're in the pit. Capturing that gave it the cinematic language of a narrative film. There's not a mix just laid onto a clip — every shot had detailed work on crowd sound and instrument balance. We mix to picture. It's not done casually.' Road Diary: Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band is an immediate portrayal of where the band is today — not just how they play, but how they live. Zimny and his team show how they got there, often through archival footage that — in true Springsteen and Zimny fashion — doesn't soften the edges. 'The power of memory is that the flicker and the lack of clarity evoke a romantic feeling,' Zimny said. 'If I cleaned it up and balanced the color, took out some of the video textures, it would take away some of the soul. But each individual clip is looked at closely. How far do you go to clean it up? You've got to listen to that voice inside the edit room when you just go, 'Wow, this really takes me back.'' Best of GoldDerby 'It was wonderful to be on that ride': Christian Slater talks his beloved roles, from cult classics ('Heathers,' 'True Romance') to TV hits ('Mr. Robot,' 'Dexter: Original Sin') Sam Rockwell on Frank's 'White Lotus' backstory, Woody Harrelson's influence, and going all in on 'this arc of Buddhist to Bad Lieutenant' Asif Ali and Saagar Shaikh admit they 'never had the audacity to realize' a show like 'Deli Boys' was possible Click here to read the full article.
Yahoo
2 days ago
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
‘Each season's got its own sort of flavor': ‘Slow Horses' director on crafting a darker, more emotional chapter
Although it might be intimidating for a director to hop aboard a successful television series a few seasons in, Adam Randall didn't have that problem on Slow Horses. "The speed with which the show is filmed meant that only season one was out when I got the job," he told Gold Derby. "Season 2 was coming out about two weeks later, and Season 3 was when I was already in post [production]. So it hadn't reached the level of success that it was going to [have], but it would still have made a big splash" given its high pedigree and A-list cast. "I was unbelievably excited and definitely intimidated going in." Based solely on what he had seen and read, it was clear to Randall that "each season was very different" and evolving. "They've established a world, they've established these characters, but each season's got its own sort of flavor, plays with genres in different ways, has its own tone. So that was one of the really exciting things, being able to take something from this remarkable world and put a stamp on it," Randall said. And in this case, "We definitely felt that it was a darker season," and every decision he made branched off from that. More from GoldDerby Tom Cruise finally gets his (honorary) Oscar moment: Here's his complete awards history Alan Cumming would be the 4th person to repeat in Best Reality Host: See fresh Emmy odds Dolly Parton adds honorary Oscar to her trophy shelf: A look back at her legendary awards history Season 4 of Slow Horses was "heavier emotionally, and in a way, it was the first season that was genuinely emotional," considering it dealt with, among other things, retired MI5 officer David Cartwright's (Jonathan Pryce) decline into dementia and the effect it has on his grandson, River (Jack Lowden). Combined with the inciting terrorist attack in Episode 1 and Frank's (Hugo Weaving) "bizarre" story set at a French compound "allowed for a much darker, heavier visual palette and score." There were even "elements of horror in there" in its portrayal of David's decline, "as well as the thriller elements," but also "the comedy and the drama that people love" from previous seasons. Slow Horses was Randall's first foray into television, as he'd previously only worked in films. Considering he directed all six episodes, "it was a very easy transition, because in effect these are six-hour movies." That was mandated from the beginning by Gary Oldman, who stars as crotchety MI5 agent Jackson Lamb. "That was one of the things that he was adamant about, that he wanted one director for all six [episodes] and to treat them like a movie." Because of this, "the show was allowed to be very director-led," Randall explains, "so once I figured out the lay of the land," he realized it was "very similar to a film, and I could push it in certain directions and think about it from start to finish." He gives due credit to lead writer Will Smith, who is "the loveliest man on earth, as well as incredibly talented and very, very funny." The two had actually met years prior because, Randall reveals, "he was in a short film I'd directed a long time ago that no one should ever see," even though, "Will was good in it, and it was lovely meeting him through it." Although the scripts Smith had written "were already great," Randall was able to bring in his own "had thoughts and ideas," especially when it came to the action sequences. "They just have to evolve and change, and he was always really open and allowed me a lot of freedom." SEE Gary Oldman on 'Slow Horses' being 'an extraordinary show to work on' and 'one of the highlights of my career' That collaborative spirit extended to his relationship with the cast. "It's interesting with this, because obviously most of them have done three seasons, so in some ways I was catching up," Randall divulges. "I was asking them about their characters," and also "what they wanted to achieve in season four." Although he'd rehearse certain scenes before filming, his directorial technique "really depends on the actor. Some actors like to keep it very fresh on the day, some actors like to talk in a lot of detail about everything, from the props they may be holding to their intention in a scene." When they arrived on set, "we'd just be very loose and play," coming up with new ideas on the day. "The one thing with those actors is how remarkable they already are," Randall continues. Whereas in "some of my previous work" he had to "try to find the performance," in Slow Horses, "it was already of such a standard that had I have not turned up it still would've been a great scene. So you're not trying to find the performance, you're trying to find what else can we bring? What other nuances can we bring? How can we play? Can we bring out any humor here? Is there any more we can push it towards?" It helped that "we also had a lot of new cast" who brought "different energies," which allowed the veteran stars "to do very different things this season." Randall submitted the fourth-season final for Emmy consideration, which he admits "was a hard decision." He chose the episode because, "I thought it balanced a lot of the different things that I was really proud of." For one thing, "it was the most emotional episode" for all of the characters, especially River and David. There was also "a lot of action, which we were really proud of, and we were bold in how we did it." The finale "was a way of weaving all of these different elements together, telling all of these different character's stories, holding this emotion in a way" that still feels in keeping with the rest of the series. It was "a huge challenge," yet the result was "an hour of drama that I'm really proud of." As Season 5 is set to premiere in September, Randall is already in post-production on Season 6, although true to the art of spy-craft, he's keeping tight-lipped about any details. "I definitely can't share details, other than I'm really, really proud of it," he reveals. "It takes this show to new places. It's a big, dramatic, and emotional season, and I'm very excited about it." Slow Horses is streaming on Apple TV+. Best of GoldDerby 'It was wonderful to be on that ride': Christian Slater talks his beloved roles, from cult classics ('Heathers,' 'True Romance') to TV hits ('Mr. Robot,' 'Dexter: Original Sin') Sam Rockwell on Frank's 'White Lotus' backstory, Woody Harrelson's influence, and going all in on 'this arc of Buddhist to Bad Lieutenant' Asif Ali and Saagar Shaikh admit they 'never had the audacity to realize' a show like 'Deli Boys' was possible Click here to read the full article.
Yahoo
2 days ago
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
Sam Spector picks Alan Cumming's 5 best looks from ‘The Traitors,' including that ‘showstopper' wedding tuxedo dress
Sam Spector's life would never be the same after Alan Cumming referred to himself as "a less butch Agatha Christie in a fabulous outfit" in the first season of The Traitors. All of a sudden, Cumming's wardrobe became a character of its own, and for some fans, seeing what the host wears next is even more important than finding out who'll be banished from the castle. The costume designer is responsible for bringing the flair to a reality TV show that often delves into dark themes like murder and betrayal. Renowned for his gender-fluid designs and fun approach to blending historical references with a modern eye, Spector is the mastermind behind Cumming's ever-changing wardrobe. He recently took a break from filming Season 4 in Scotland to talk to Gold Derby about his five favorite looks from Season 3, including the "campy glam" turquoise armor and the "showstopper" wedding tuxedo dress. More from GoldDerby Marc Maron's 'Are We Good?': What happens when stars clash with their documentary filmmakers TV's double threats: 10 actors eyeing nominations for both comedy and drama at the 2025 Emmys Beyond Alexis Bledel: 7 other times actors withdrew themselves from Emmy consideration The Traitors is a three-time Emmy winner for reality casting (2023), competition program (2024), and reality host (2024). Spector is seeking his first career Emmy nomination this year, and he has submitted the Season 3 episode "Til Death Us Do Part" for consideration in the category of Best Costumes For Variety, Nonfiction, or Reality Programming. "This look was an extension of the opening look where Alan rides in on a horse," Spector says about the host's turquoise kilt costume. "For the big reveal, we made a custom chest piece that was inspired by armor, but I wanted a campy glam color to make it perfectly Alan." Peacock "The wedding look was intended to be a showstopper," the costume designer proclaims. "While Alan comes out at breakfast in a traditional masculine suit, I wanted to play with gender for the wedding and make a tuxedo dress. We custom draped fabric to attach to the suit to appear as half suit, half dress. We love playing with gender. I also worked with Zero Waste Daniel for the appliqué, in which I wanted to do a cross between a boutonniere and bouquet a bride would wear. This piece is made from recycled material." Peacock As for the baby blue look, Spector notes, "The mission in this episode took place in a creepy dollhouse so I was inspired by creepy horror dolls. We used an off-the-rack Paul Smith suit for breakfast and swapped out the sleeves to resemble a horror doll's dress. We embellished the look with a baby doll head as a pocket square that was bedazzled with red rhinestones in the eyes." Peacock If you got Mary Queen of Scots vibes while seeing Cumming wearing blue velvet and a gold cage corset, that was the intention. "While researching historical Scottish figures, I realized we hadn't used Mary Queen of Scots as a reference," the designer explained. "I immediately texted Alan and he was onboard create a look inspired by her. We worked with Michael Ngo to build a glam/punk/goth Mary Queen of Scots look." Peacock Finally, Spector told us all about Cumming's black-and-white chess ensemble. "This mission took place on a huge chess board with life-size chess pieces," he stated. "I wanted to play with prints and proportions here, and custom created this head piece made out of chess pieces." Peacock Last month at a murder mystery luncheon for press, Spector teased the upcoming fourth cycle of The Traitors, saying, "Each season, we have taken it to the next level. This one is by far the most dramatic in terms of costume. We're bringing a whole new level of style. This season, we're bringing a lot more full custom costume design." Tour our photo gallery below to see which famous faces will take part in Season 4, due out in 2026. The first three seasons of The Traitors are streaming now on Peacock. SIGN UP for Gold Derby's free newsletter with latest predictions Best of GoldDerby 'It was wonderful to be on that ride': Christian Slater talks his beloved roles, from cult classics ('Heathers,' 'True Romance') to TV hits ('Mr. Robot,' 'Dexter: Original Sin') Sam Rockwell on Frank's 'White Lotus' backstory, Woody Harrelson's influence, and going all in on 'this arc of Buddhist to Bad Lieutenant' Asif Ali and Saagar Shaikh admit they 'never had the audacity to realize' a show like 'Deli Boys' was possible Click here to read the full article.
Yahoo
2 days ago
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
How ‘Yellowjackets' brought the shocking ‘Pit Girl' hunt to life in Season 3
In Season 3 of Yellowjackets, the girls are no longer alone in the woods. Ever since a plane crash left the Wiskayok High School Yellowjackets soccer team stranded deep in the Canadian wilderness, there's been speculation about whether the surviving members would encounter outsiders at some point during their 19-month stay in the woods. It turns out they would. While the girls are feasting on their freshly deceased assistant coach Ben (Steven Krueger) at the end of the sixth episode of Season 3, "Thanksgiving (Canada)," three hikers — frog scientists Edwin (Nelson Franklin) and Hannah (Ashley Sutton) and their wilderness guide Kodi (Joel McHale) — step foot into the girls' camp. In the remote area to research the mating habits of the rare Arctic Banshee frog, the scientists are lured by a barbecue smell coming from Ben's roasted corpse — unaware of just how much trouble they're walking into. More from GoldDerby 'Be open to the moment you never expected': How 'Road Diary' captured Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in full force 'Each season's got its own sort of flavor': 'Slow Horses' director on crafting a darker, more emotional chapter Sam Spector picks Alan Cumming's 5 best looks from 'The Traitors,' including that 'showstopper' wedding tuxedo dress The introduction of the scientists, which was part of series creators Ashley Lyle and Bart Nickerson's original pitch, is consequential in more than just one way. Not only does it lead to another surprising twist — the blood-curdling shrieks the Yellowjackets have been hearing all season aren't coming from the trees, as Travis (Kevin Alves) believes, but from the Arctic Banshee frogs that have woken up from a mating event — but it also introduces a new point of view into the show. "[The Yellowjackets'] world becomes just them, and there is no objective perspective on everything that's happening," says Nickerson, the co-showrunner and executive producer of the Showtime series who made his directorial debut this season, helming both the premiere and the finale. He says the intention behind this new perspective was to "give maybe a hint, or a sense, of what a tremendous, shattering experience" the plane crash survivors' return to civilization would be. The arrival of the scientists and almost instant demise of Edwin at the hands of Lottie (Courtney Eaton) then set off a chain of calamitous events that culminates in another long-awaited reveal in the finale, "Full Circle": the identity of "Pit Girl," the unidentified young woman who falls into a pit, dies, and is consumed by her teammates after being chased through the snowy forest in the flash-forward that opens the show. The girl is Mari (Alexa Barajas), who becomes the unlucky victim of a ritualistic hunt she helped orchestrate as part of a larger plan to take out rising "Antler Queen" Shauna (Sophie Nélisse). Even though the "Pit Girl" hunt in the finale is a departure from the version of the event in the pilot, which appears to record the Yellowjackets at their most feral, Nickerson doesn't believe it's "any more or less savage or ecstatic." "In the pilot, the flash-forwards are meant to be very subjective. They sort of live within the minds of the characters, in a way that the wilderness storyline does not," he explains. "And so, it was trying to play with the real version of something that was kind of an impressionistic distillation. There's the feeling, tone, or the emotional summary of something, and there's the lived, granular experience of it." In this interview with Gold Derby, Nickerson discusses how the introduction of the frog scientists marks an "inflection point" in the series, why the "Pit Girl" chase in the finale does and doesn't reconceptualize the story that was originally promised, how he brought said chase to life as the director of the finale, and more. Gold Derby: The big twist in [Episode 6] is that a pair of frog scientists and their wilderness guide stumble upon the Yellowjackets while they're feasting on Ben. What I think is so interesting about their introduction is that it's the first time we really get to see the Yellowjackets from an outside perspective in the wilderness. How does that perspective figure into the larger story you're telling on the show, particularly in Season 3? Bart Nickerson: What a fun episode that was for us to do, because the frog scientist thing was something we had pitched years and years ago, when we were originally pitching the show. I think that that's also such an important inflection point, because ultimately, in the wilderness timeline, one of the things that we have tried to do is create and give the experience of a loss of perspective. Their world becomes just them, and there is no objective perspective on everything that's happening. And in the present-day storyline, you're really seeing that small aperture, subjectivity of the wilderness post-it being shattered. We kind of hinted at this a little bit in Season 2, like the shattering effect of the return to civilization. One of the strange and fun things about this show is that there is a third timeline, the implied events between past and present. So then you get to work in the future and the past at the same time. And that's kind of what this moment was meant to do: give maybe a hint, or a sense, of what a tremendous, shattering experience the return will be. Something that I've always liked about the show is that there's usually a logical as well as a supernatural explanation for anything that happens. So what really stands out about the shrieks [the Yellowjackets hear in the forest] is that the show does appear to endorse the logical explanation. So why did you and the other writers lean in that direction with this specific reveal? The show is certainly one that traffics in mystery and leaving things kind of ambiguous. It did feel like with this one in particular, maybe because the effect it's going to have is so concrete, that having it better explained just sort of felt right. I think there's also an element, as we're moving through the season towards the apex of some of the wilderness stuff, to not close the loop, but to ground their experience. Colin Bentley/Paramount+ with Showtime The arrival of the scientists — and the ensuing demise of Edwin — then sets off a chain of events that culminates in the reveal of "Pit Girl," who winds up being our dearest Mari, in the finale. I have to confess, I didn't expect the reveal to actually come this early in the story. Was it always planned that "Pit Girl" would be the first victim of the second winter? "Pit Girl" was always meant to be a kind of demarcation. "Going maximum wilderness" is how we talked about it in the room. [It was] like, when we get back up to this, just from a structural standpoint, even back in the pilot, the point was to build tension and to give you just a little bit of a flash, a sense of where this was going, to create a certain amount of tension that allowed you to maybe have a little bit of a slower build to it, to kind of keep saying, "Hey, this is going to get crazy. Just have the patience to go with us to get there." And so then, once you get there, there's a sense that you need to kind of exceed the expectation that you've been creating. That was always part of how the "Pit Girl" death was supposed to land, so that it's sort of the beginning of the end, or moving into something that is hopefully even more heightened than maybe was expected. Yeah, I was thinking about how the "Pit Girl" chase was seemingly set up as a moment where the girls had fully descended into willful, irredeemable savagery, and the finale kind of turns that idea on its head. Because I think a lot of people, when they saw the pilot, thought that, "Oh, all of these girls will be in this ecstatic state after hunting and killing one of their teammates," and then what we see in the finale is obviously a very different version of that storyline. So how does — or doesn't — the finale then reconceptualize the story that was initially promised? Cool question! I think it reconceptualizes by conceptualizing it, if that makes sense. In the pilot, the flash-forwards are meant to be very subjective. They sort of live within the minds of the characters, in a way that the wilderness storyline does not. And so, it was trying to play with the real version of something that was kind of an impressionistic distillation. There's the feeling, tone, or the emotional summary of something, and there's the lived, granular experience of it. One of the things that's really fun for us about this show is getting to do both. We start with the very long-lens version of it, far away, impressionistic. And then we get to move into: "What was it like to experience this?" So to me, it's not any more or less savage or ecstatic; it's just, "What is the real experience of those things?" That kind of takes me to my next question, because obviously, the way the "Pit Girl" chase plays out in the finale is quite different from how it's teased in the pilot. And we understand now that's because it's supposed to be a retelling of the event. Because of adult Shauna's (Melanie Lynskey) journaling session in the finale, the theory among fans is that the pilot is kind of Shauna's recollection of the hunt, while the finale chronicles how it "actually" went down. What's your take on that? I have not heard that! I like it! It's especially interesting if we think back to the pilot, because after we see the crashed plane, it cuts to Shauna reading her journals. [The show] is definitely kind of a double ensemble. All the characters are very important. But in the original inception of the show — which, of course, has grown and expanded — Shauna was meant to be the point-of-view character. And so, the idea that those flash-forwards would tend to favor her perspective — I definitely see where that theory comes from. I am so consistently impressed by, and kind of admire, the fan base's depth of analysis. Having gotten wind of papers that people have written and different things that people have shown me — like deep, thoughtful analysis — that's just really gratifying and kind of exciting, to see that the show inspires that level of care and thoughtfulness. Paramount+ with Showtime The fans are very creative! Bart, you also directed the episode. How did you go about reframing the hunt in the finale, aesthetically, without straying too far from the flash-forwards in the pilot, to the point where people wouldn't recognize the sequence anymore? Going in, the idea was — just, one, for the continuity of it, but also narratively — wanting to have the sequences be connected but have their own kind of identity. Those were the things that we were trying to balance. And then it really does just become a balancing act. And ultimately, balancing is kind of like, "A little more over here — no, it's starting to move too much!" You're just trying to feel your way into the equilibrium. And so, it was just about going as slow as you can [because] a television production is kind of moving very quickly, kind of always. I would be remiss not to mention the opening sequence of the finale as well, which is accompanied by an original song from the composers [Craig Wedren and Anna Waronker], titled "Sleepwalking." This sequence is arguably the most unique one that the show has delivered to date. So talk a bit about putting that together. That was very exciting because I feel like the teaser or opening is kind of often the place where you can get away with the most, or be the most, ambitious, sometimes with different narrative devices that you want to use. Here, one is to sort of give a tableau, or an image, of something that is pointing towards the core of what is beneath the wilderness experience, be that literal or metaphoric. What is the dream image? What is the face of Lottie's subconscious, be it connected to something or [not]. What is that going to look like? And then there's just also the hurdle of wanting to briskly move and tie together a dream-like present with a literal dream with a flashback that has either a shifting point of view or a point of view that lives outside of time. The intent and some of the heavy lifting for some of these narrative devices, just in terms of how they could work and how they could work together, was done on the page [by Ameni Rozsa]. And then, of course, production and [the performers] get to expand on that. And then the song, man. Having composers like Craig and Anna, who are just so versatile and incredibly talented — it really is an embarrassment of riches on this show. Sometimes, just the amount of talent that we get to deploy in the creation of this show is staggering. I completely agree. Bart, the show was renewed for a fourth season last month. Congratulations! Thank you so much! I know it's only been a few weeks, but just briefly, is there anything you can share or tease about the upcoming season — when production might start, what viewers can expect from it, or just anything? The fans would appreciate , I'm sure. [Laughs] My deepest apologies, there's not really anything that I can share. We're very much in the early stages. Maybe you could just extend my hearty appreciation to the fans and [say] thanks for all the theories and the patience. And I can promise one thing: We are going to work our asses off to hopefully deliver another great season. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. 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