Rob Key interview: Freddie Flintoff can be England's next Brendon McCullum

Rob Key is into his fourth summer as England 's managing director of men's cricket but is well aware that his tenure will be judged by the outcome of 10 Test matches that begin this Friday with India before Australia and the Ashes.
It is judgment day for the whole 'Bazball' project overseen by Key, Brendon McCullum and Ben Stokes.
'There's no doubt that everyone will define this era on that,' Key tells the new Telegraph Cricket Podcast on its first episode. 'I don't define myself on how we go in the next 10 Test matches, but I'm sure that everyone else will.'
After a routine Test win against Zimbabwe, and a positive first outing for Harry Brook's white-ball teams, the mood in English cricket is largely positive as Key rifles through all manner of issues.
The 46-year-old former Kent captain looks relaxed, dressed for a round of golf (as usual), and is recalling a moment of humorous hypocrisy earlier in the summer. Having told his players to dial back on the golf chat that was rubbing fans up the wrong way, only to give an interview from a tee-box at a charity tournament.
'I didn't tell them to stop playing golf, just stop giving easy headlines about it and talking about it as I have here,' he laughs. 'I was playing the Bob Willis Prostate Cancer Golf Day and they said to me, would you do an interview with Sky News [to promote the day]? And I thought, I've just said to them, 'don't talk about golf – and here I am on the 10th tee'.
'But I think it's so important for these lads to have something else outside of the cricket because there's not a moment I go through where I'm not thinking about the selection side of it, all these different parts of the job. And it's like you get a moment, whether it's the cinema, whatever it is you do where you can just switch off and have a bit of peace of mind. I think that's so important.'
"Nothing too serious" 🗣️
Rob Key gives an update on the thumb injury to Jofra Archer 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 pic.twitter.com/SLNIC13zsQ
— Sky Sports Cricket (@SkyCricket) May 21, 2025
Key knows, though, that the time for talk is done. What matters is how Stokes's team performs at Headingley on Friday. They start the series with a slightly patched-up attack, but he hopes that Jofra Archer could be fit for the second Test at Edgbaston and Mark Wood back before the series is out.
Archer and Wood are among a raft of injured England bowlers, and Key admits he watched the World Test Championship final with a little envy given the stark contrast with the durability of Australia's great bowlers.
They lost that final to South Africa, and a great attack – Pat Cummins, Josh Hazlewood, Mitchell Starc and Nathan Lyon – are entering the winter of their careers, but they have been together for pretty much every big moment since 2017. Australia have still not lost an Ashes Test that all four have played in.
'I always find it slightly frustrating how they managed to keep those bowlers fit for almost everything,' he says. 'That's the dream, isn't it? Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, with the era that they've had, it's been a lot because of those guys.
'That's the holy grail, really, being able to keep your best bowlers fit like that for as long as possible.'
Key believes that a generation of English bowlers like Brydon Carse and Gus Atkinson are maturing, though, and could have similar longevity.
'We've looked into all of this, and what happens is there comes a point, with young bowlers where you have to push them, push them, then pull them back.
'They need to develop the robustness, their bones need to strengthen, their bodies need to harden, which is what's happening now. Cummins had lots of stress fractures and injuries and was out for a long, long time. But there comes a point, they reckon sort of 23 and beyond, where bowlers have properly developed and matured.
'I hate [the idea of] rest and rotation because it's premeditated, 'you are not going to play the third Test' and so on. I don't like that, but we have to be flexible throughout.'
A crucial member of Key's team is Andrew 'Freddie' Flintoff. The pair were close friends in their playing days and Key ushered Flintoff back to cricket after his horrendous car crash on Top Gear. Now he runs England Lions, nurturing the next generation of players. This is a delicate job, because England are as adventurous with selection as they ever have been.
Key drops in a host of pretenders' names, including the Sussex churner Tom Haines, the Surrey seamer Tom Lawes, and Eddie Jack, a Hampshire quick yet to play in the Championship. The latter was due to join the Test squad at Headingley this week, but is going to play some county cricket instead.
Crucially, the Lions set-up is an opportunity for Flintoff to prepare himself for the main England side, too.
'I think he'd be an excellent head coach of England, Andrew Flintoff,' Key says. 'Fred's got that real inspiration. He's been there, he's done it. He understands what he says.
'He's more like Brendon McCullum, where he understands what you're going through. So when you speak to Fred about players, you get a rundown really on not just them as the player, but what they're really like, what they're going through, what they think, you know, which is really important.
'He makes people feel like they can conquer the world really. And he does it in a subtle way. You can't just tell people 'you are great'.
'[Our approach is] Pick the most talented players you can and give them experiences.'
Key believes that Flintoff is capable of using the stick as well as the carrot, though.
'It's no different from raising your kids at times. If you just tell your kids they're great all the time and give them everything they want... You've got some pretty average kids growing up I reckon, and it's no different as players.
'The last thing you want is entitled cricketers who think that everyone should be doing them a favour. You want to create players that everyone wants to follow, because they're bloody good players who go out there, win games of cricket, and they're a great role model.'
England's selection policy – batting Jacob Bethell at No 3 having never scored a professional hundred, for instance – has led to accusations that county form no longer matters.
But Key believes that county cricket has become so different to Test matches in some respects (the use of spin, for instance), that selection has to take place independent from it. However, he points to the likes of Sam Cook and Ben Duckett, whose county form ultimately brought selection.
'People say but you're not picking from the counties,' Key says. 'I say, where do you think these guys are coming from? They're not coming from The Dog and Duck, you know, they are being produced by the counties.
'I made a pact to myself. That I could get involved in the county politics, like they've got this domestic review. I ended up in the high-performance review we did before [in 2022].
'It's a hard thing to change, right? It's just a different style of cricket at the moment because they play so much cricket at the start of the year.'
'So it's not for me to tell them,' Key adds. 'If you're a director of cricket or you are a county head coach, your job isn't decided by how England are doing. Your job is on whether you are winning Championships. You've seen with Lancashire at the moment, Dale Benkenstein, is gone, that's nothing to do with us. That's for Lancashire.
'The same with Jacob Bethell. Everyone was saying how is Jacob Bethell playing for England? Now everyone thinks he should play every game. But we are almost a bit like 'well yeah, we would've been having him bat at three for Warwickshire for years', but that's not our place to do that.'
And whether Bethell returns at No 3 in place of Ollie Pope is very much the main topic of conversation heading into the India series. But Key only provides a straight bat to that question, which is not very Bazball at all.

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Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Jaiswal has quite the record against England — ten innings, 812 runs average of 101.5 with three centuries. There are fewer India fans in the ground than one might expect. Usually India Tests in England have a significant portion of India fans — usually very loud ones too — but there aren't many India shirts or flags on display and our colleagues at talkSPORT have been talking to some of the India supporters that are here who anecdotally have told them that a lot of their India supporting friends sold their tickets when Virat Kohli retired. Seems as if his arms are just fine as Yashasvi Jaiswal hits a single off side to bring up his century off of 144 balls. That is a fifth ton for the 23 year old. Please enable cookies and other technologies to view this content. You can update your cookies preferences any time using privacy manager. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Wild celebrations and a beaming smile on Jaiswal's face as he pushes a single to bring up his 100. Arms aloft and crowd are on their feet. A brilliant hundred has put India in command as we approach tea. Slight delay in play as Yashasvi Jaiswal calls for treatment. The physio is on and it looks both arms are being iced. Unsure what the issue is, but his helmet is back on and he is continuing. Shubman Gill had played three Tests in England prior to this match and hadn't exactly set the world on fire, as the chart below shows. His 57 and counting in this innings is his first 50-plus score in Tests on these shores. Good omens for India. Shubman Gill, the India captain, has crossed the half-century mark with a rapid 52 from 58 balls since lunch. This partnership with Yashasvi Jaiswal is looking rather ominous from England's perspective, with 54 runs coming from the past ten overs. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Time for some drinks, and some of the crowd could do with a drink that doesn't have alcohol in it, I think. Anyway, it's been a good hour for India and England are looking a touch weary. There is movement but they are bowling too many bad balls. It's time for a change and Shoaib Bashir is on for his first bowl of the day — he's getting some turn and a bit of bounce from his high release. The over goes for six but it was pretty tidy. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley There are some new playing regulations for this cycle of the World Test Championship, which include a change to the rules on concussion substitutes. Because there have been some controversies about whether some concussion substitutes have genuinely been 'like-for-like' replacements, teams must now pre-name one seamer, one spinner, one wicketkeeper, one specialist batsman and one all-rounder before the match starts. However, England have decided not to make their picks public and indeed the player who has been named hasn't necessarily been told they are the substitute! Cricket, eh? Always making things more obtuse than they need to be. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Fifty for Yashasvi Jaiswal, working one off his chest through square leg. That's his 11th Test fifty in 20 matches and it came from 96 balls with eight fours. India have started well since lunch, adding 43 in 40 minutes. England's over rate isn't very good but that's because they've not bowled any spin yet, so there's a chance to make it up. In the previous two WTC cycles over-rate penalties haven't helped England's place in the table. India are keen to reassert themselves here and Shubman Gill has just taken Chris Woakes for three boundaries in one over, featuring a slightly fortuitous edge between third slip and gully to a lovely drive through mid-off three balls later. The new captain is already up to 26 off 26 balls. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley The searing 30C heat that was forecast hasn't materialised and there is cloud above Headingley and a bit of a breeze. It is helping the ball swing so England are sticking with their seamers. A couple of half shouts for leg-before since lunch and Brydon Carse is bowling a leg-stump line, so they've got a leg slip in. A pretty sedate couple of overs to begin the second session, bar one run-out chance in which Ollie Pope's throw from mid-wicket ended up as overthrows rather than a direct hit. India have passed the team 100, too. After being put in on a scorcher of a day and a pretty flat pitch India were utterly dominating that session, but two wickets in the final six balls have put a different stamp on proceedings. Shubman Gill will be out to bat when play resumes in the next ten minutes and the new captain will have a bit of a rebuilding job to do, along with Yashasvi Jaiswal, who is on 42. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley And it works. Ben Stokes gets the debutant Sai Sudharsan, strangled down the leg side, and that's a very nice five minutes for England. That's lunch, and India are 92-2. Given it's quite flat and the outfield is lightning, England will probably take that. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley And with seven minutes until lunch, there is the breakthrough and it's Brydon Carse who gets it as KL Rahul, who took successive boundaries off Ben Stokes, is caught by Joe Root at slip for 42 from 78 balls. Rahul was driving at a wide ball but there was a bit of late movement and a fizzing edge to first slip. That brings Sai Sudharsan to the crease on debut and the first ball he faces is an absolute seed. Jaiswal takes a single off the first ball of the next over and so Stokes will get five balls at the debutant. The run rate starts to up for India as KL Rahul takes Ben Stokes for two boundaries in two balls, the first a wild hack over the slips as he tries to drive. Brydon Carse is struggling to find his line and length as a full toss is dispatched through deep point by Yashasvi Jaiswal, the next ball flicked through fine leg, off the pads rather than the bat though. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Jacob Bethell and Sam Cook are being released from the England squad this evening and will play in the next round of County Championship matches starting on Sunday. Jamie Overton is carrying a bit of a niggle as I understand, so will stay with the squad. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley A big cheer as Ben Stokes puts himself into the attack from the Football Stand end, with three slips and a gully. The sun is out now and it's getting hot. There's a bit of a breeze, which is welcome. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley England have burnt that review against Yashasvi Jaiswal and the left-hander follows up with a sumptuous on-drive which made some in the press box purr. Then KL Rahul drives a half-volley beautifully through the covers for another four. India have got through the first hour solidly with only a couple of minor alarms. It's a lightning-quick outfield here and you get value for your shots. It seems like it might be a bit of hard work for England today but it probably was still the right decision to bowl — if there was going to be any movement it was more likely to be today than tomorrow. The stats do back that up, that the ball does a bit on the first morning and then the pitch gets better. That is one that Ben Stokes's side would like to take back. It's a full ball from Josh Tongue that strikes Yashasvi Jaiswal low on the pads, the angle looks to be going well down the leg side but England are sending it upstairs anyway. And it's so far to leg that it's actually pitching outside of leg stump. Gosh. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Chris Woakes nearly makes the breakthrough, beating the edge of Yashasvi Jaiswal's bat by not very much. A very good line on middle stump on a good length and it moves away and misses the edge by millimetres. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Unless they've decided to just use one umpire officiating from both ends, there's some questionable grammar on this Headingley signage. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Because it's going to be scorchio today and even hotter tomorrow, Yorkshire have put in place some extra hot weather protocols. Extra water fountains, plenty of medical staff and they'll 'manage' the bars — i.e they'll close them for a bit if people are just getting too hot and drunk. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley A factoid: Joe Root is the only player in this England team who also played against India here at Headingley in 2021. He scored 121 as England won by an innings and 76 runs. That England team in full: Rory Burns, Haseeb Hameed, Dawid Malan, Root, Jonny Bairstow, Jos Buttler, Moeen Ali, Sam Curran, Craig Overton, Ollie Robinson and Jimmy Anderson. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley KL Rahul got off the mark in unconvincing fashion trying to drive a full-length ball and getting a thick edge through the vacant gully region. There's definitely some movement in the air, which is encouraging for England. There's a full house at Headingley today, it's sold out for the first three days in fact. Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Chris Woakes is opening up from the Kirskstall Lane end and England are on the attack early — four slips and a wide gully and there's some early away swing. The sun is trying to break through the haze and the Barmy Army have broken into their traditional early rendition of Jerusalem. The first boundary of the day comes as Jaiswal edges one with controlled hands through third man. Brydon Carse will take the new ball from the Football Stand end. Yashasvi Jaiswal (averaging a fairly peachy 52.88) takes his guard as Chris Woakes takes the new ball from the Kirkstall Lane end. A solid forward defensive meets a ball from a good length, and the series is officially under way! Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Brendon McCullum is a good man to have in charge in a series against India. In his time as a player his Test career average of 38 climbs to 68 against India, with four centuries in ten Tests. He says he always viewed India as just about the greatest challenge and that he stepped his game up against them — hitting a double century and a triple century against the side for New Zealand in the 2014 two-match Test series. Decent stats. Here's how the visiting side will line up. There's a debut for Sai Sudharsan at No3 and the long-awaited return of Karun Nair, a triple centurion against England who played his most recent Test in March 2017. 1 Yashasvi Jaiswal, 2 KL Rahul, 3 B Sai Sudharsan, 4 Shubman Gill (capt), 5 Rishabh Pant (wk), 6 Karun Nair, 7 Ravindra Jadeja, 8 Shardul Thakur, 9 Prasidh Krishna, 10 Jasprit Bumrah, 11 Mohammed Siraj. Elizabeth Ammon at Headingley England have won the toss and will bowl first, as predicted by Steve Harmison and Jeremy Coney below. It's hazy but hot, but it's likely to do a bit today and flatten out tomorrow. There are some storms predicted tomorrow but only isolated ones. There has only been one drawn Test here in the past 11, against South Africa in 2012. Mike Atherton, at Headingley There is no question Ben Stokes has transformed the England team. In outlook and attitude it is totally different from the one he inherited, more assertive and confident in every way, but they still lack a significant scalp. This summer against India and the winter down under both provide that opportunity, which has been greeted with a subtle shift in language and emphasis. 'It's about winning,' Stokes said on the eve of the first Test at Headingley. To do that, Stokes will have to be at his best as a player. 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Elizabeth Ammon, at Headingley Good morning from Headingley where it is warm but a bit hazy overhead. The pitch looks like a belter but I've just had a chat with Steve Harmison and Jeremy Coney, who are commentating for talkSPORT and they both said that they think if England win the toss they might bowl — it will do a bit day one, it flattens out from day two and England like to chase. The players are out on the field, some doing yoga, some in the nets, some doing not very much. A reminder of the England team taking to the field today, and the series details. England XI Z Crawley, B Duckett, O Pope, J Root, H Brook, B Stokes (c), J Smith (wk), C Woakes, B Carse, J Tongue, S Bashir It's been a long time coming but England's five-Test series with India is finally upon us. It's the start of a defining stretch for Brendon McCullum and Ben Stokes' Bazball project — as they are happy to admit — with the Ashes to come this winter, and India will make for fascinating opposition. The retirements of Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma and Ravichandran Ashwin mean this is a very different team arriving on English shores, and it is the new captain, Shubman Gill, charged with leading this relatively inexperienced group. Join Elizabeth Ammon for all the updates from Headingley today.